The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation, and thereby doing their part to help Donald “Gotta Finish the Problem” Trump win, makes my bones hurt. I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Agreed and I did the same yesterday. Will vote for Biden in the end, but I registered my complaint. As best I can tell, his tone shifted after Michigan so we’ll see if there is more change on the horizon.
I’m usually skeptical of protest votes, but these primary protest votes are actually effective for the same reason voting is effective. Politicians aren’t as static as we want to believe- their number one priority is reelection. When you vote, you are telling the candidates that you are politically useful and they will begin to pay attention to your needs. When you vote for all levels of government, you are giving deeper detail into what your needs are.
If a significant portion of a district votes for a Democrat as president, and then a Republican for state representative, the democratic administration will likely make more conservative decisions if they see that portion of the electorate as critical to reelection.
This naturally reveals a big problem with the electoral college, as there are maybe 5 states with critical demographics needed to win reelection. The people in Ohio, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, and Michigan are more influential to the type of administration a Republican or Democrat would run.
If the Gaza protest vote happened in Washington State or California, I doubt Biden would have reacted as much as he did for Michigan. That said, this problem politicians face goes from the President of the US down to the president of your HOA. So I’ll acknowledge that the power of voting fluctuates depending on the specific outcome you are measuring, but there are so many variables. In political science you need to learn to live with paradoxes, and this may be one.
Either way, I believe we should keep voting; they are paying attention.
If any American ever has any questions about the Weimar Republic and why Germans didn’t stop Hitler when they still had a chance to do so, just point them to the run up to the 2024 presidential election. People who secretly want fascist leaders will always have an excuse, if one goes away, they already have another excuse waiting.
Yes and these people become excessively angry with you when you point it out. Their goal isn’t really to find a solution, it is to express discontent. They are divorced enough from reality that when you mention that Trump would be worse, they tend to lash out at you instead.
Ha I was debating (?) some gradbears with the argument that not voting against Donnie would result in more suffering but their replies can be summed up as “not my problem, I’d feel worse if I did”
The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation
I left my primary ballot blank. There was nobody on the ticket who wasn’t going to continue the genocide (with perhaps Marianna Williamson as an exception, but I’m not indulging her vanity campaign). Come November, I suspect I’ll be in the same spot. Two candidates who are endorsing genocide, with the caveat that one is waving an Israeli sports pennant while the other repeatedly insists he feels really bad about it.
I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Swing by Gaza. We’ll sell the Israelis the next round of ammo used to wipe you off the face of the Earth.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban, or legislation criminalizing trans people, it would really mess with your calculus.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
Hey now, that’s not true. He’s also responsible for getting his Too Woke judicial nominees filibustered, appointing a bunch of corporate flacks to the Federal Reserve, doing photo ops at the US-Mexico border while wearing tacti-cool kit and frowning through a pair of binoculars, and fucking up the handling of the next environmental / weather disaster. And who can forget the most important job of any President? Fundraising!
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban
Then we’re already fucked, because that would imply all this hemming and hawing about abortion being a losing issue for Republicans failed to pan out and now a bunch of sadistic right-wing fucks are crowding into the House and Senate.
If 2024 was the last election ever, then your logic makes complete sense, and I get to liberals every election is the last election ever, despite us seeing Trump’s desperate and flawed attempts at seizing power. He didn’t get more intelligent in the last 4 years or learn from his mistakes.
Imagine a crazy, crazy world, where Trump wins in 2024 and there’s a 2028 election. I know this is hard for some moderate libs to fathom, but you should recognize it as a real possibility.
If it’s incredibly clear that Biden lost because he’s Genocide Joe, then the next Democratic candidate might be someone younger who is ready to end the genocide (which the U.S is perfectly capable of single-handedly doing).
I’ve met people online that absolutely refuse to even acknowledge this is a possible world. They think Genocide Joe is the absolute best, pro-Gaza leader the Democratic party could ever put forth, and that losing elections due to issues like supporting genocide could never change the rhetoric and actions of future candidates in the party.
It’s fucking mind-numbing how little thought people put into this. Like I’m happy to agree that in a world where Trump wins, the years 2024-2028 are going to be worse in about every conceivable way, but then as we get into 2028 and beyond, there are scenarios that play out better for leftists in that world (e.g we get an anti-genocide, socialist leftist instead of some moderate Republican who is a reincarnation of Biden except on some social issues). The fact that moderate libs REFUSE to acknowledge this possibility is fucking exhausting.
And I’m not saying that it’s guaranteed to be better 2028 and beyond, it’s absolutely not, nobody can make guarantees about the future, but there is undeniable potential value in having Biden lose this election when you look beyond the next 4 years.
“Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”
You’re speaking in certainties when you cannot. The genocide has been perpetuated, on and off, for 75 years. This is the most killing we’ve seen in the region in a short span of time, but we have seen figures close to this in the past 75 years.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
There’s also a world where Biden is reelected, his campaign keeps greenlighting the genocide with periodic rhetorical criticism, and then some other fascist Republican or moderate fiscal conservative Democrat comes in in 2028 and finishes the job (the Democrats now emboldened to further ignore the genocide because it costs them nothing).
It’s easier online to speak in certainty about the future, I understand that, but please if you’re going to bother engaging please don’t do it in bad-faith and actually admit where your knowledge ends. You’re not clairvoyant.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
You just need to read the headline to this post, not even the article, to see where this argument is a non starter.
I don’t believe Trump’s campaign promises are unwavering truisms that come to fruition 100% of the time. I’m glad you have so much faith in the promises he makes though, so much so that you’d literally call them a certainty and disregard any other possible reality just simply on the basis that Trump said it.
I’ve met a good number of Trump supporters that don’t even have this kind of faith, only his most devout followers take his promises as premonitions of the future.
He already tried to seize the capital through force. He has failed, he was the president for 4 fucking years and couldn’t figure out how to dismantle the government. He’s incredibly incompetent, I don’t know why every liberal in the world is clutching their pearls like he’s some kind of mastermind who grew and learned how to overthrow the country.
It’s not like he’s the one coming up with the plan. Project 2025 was written by much more cunning schemers. There are people who saw him fail to take the capital by force, and now seek to enable his success next time.
Trump is a figurehead. The man himself is nothing. If her gets elected, the smart people behind him who actually DO learn from past mistakes will have four years to reshape the government, and last time, things moved FAST.
Not voting does not send the message you think it does. It sends the message that you’re fine with the status quo and content to sit home and let things play out. “Protest” voting in the final election within a 2 party system is the same as not voting. It’s winner take all, and nothing else matters to these people.
I’ve responded to this exact sentiment in at least 4 comments and it’s getting exhausting. Either find my response to this or don’t engage, I don’t really give a fuck. It can’t possibly be my responsibility to educate every genocide-agnostic moderate-lib on the material reality of elections.
“I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…” oh please, just stop. How horrible is your life? You sound like a whiny liberal. People are dying all over the world, being murdered for religious beliefs, sexual preference, politics…etc…and you don’t want to live because “that big bad republican might become President…” Please…
The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation, and thereby doing their part to help Donald “Gotta Finish the Problem” Trump win, makes my bones hurt. I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Not voting for Biden in the primaries is perfectly fine.
Agreed and I did the same yesterday. Will vote for Biden in the end, but I registered my complaint. As best I can tell, his tone shifted after Michigan so we’ll see if there is more change on the horizon.
I’m usually skeptical of protest votes, but these primary protest votes are actually effective for the same reason voting is effective. Politicians aren’t as static as we want to believe- their number one priority is reelection. When you vote, you are telling the candidates that you are politically useful and they will begin to pay attention to your needs. When you vote for all levels of government, you are giving deeper detail into what your needs are.
If a significant portion of a district votes for a Democrat as president, and then a Republican for state representative, the democratic administration will likely make more conservative decisions if they see that portion of the electorate as critical to reelection.
This naturally reveals a big problem with the electoral college, as there are maybe 5 states with critical demographics needed to win reelection. The people in Ohio, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, and Michigan are more influential to the type of administration a Republican or Democrat would run.
If the Gaza protest vote happened in Washington State or California, I doubt Biden would have reacted as much as he did for Michigan. That said, this problem politicians face goes from the President of the US down to the president of your HOA. So I’ll acknowledge that the power of voting fluctuates depending on the specific outcome you are measuring, but there are so many variables. In political science you need to learn to live with paradoxes, and this may be one.
Either way, I believe we should keep voting; they are paying attention.
There are primaries for Dems? I thought Biden was automatically the candidate as current POTUS.
There is a whole calendar
https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_to_the_2024_Democratic_presidential_primary_calendar
If any American ever has any questions about the Weimar Republic and why Germans didn’t stop Hitler when they still had a chance to do so, just point them to the run up to the 2024 presidential election. People who secretly want fascist leaders will always have an excuse, if one goes away, they already have another excuse waiting.
Everyone knows the Weimar Republic was funding a genocide before they elected Hitler. It’s in the history books, page 420. /s
and did that genocide get worse under Hitler, or ridiculously worse under Hitler? Page 69 will shock you.
Yes and these people become excessively angry with you when you point it out. Their goal isn’t really to find a solution, it is to express discontent. They are divorced enough from reality that when you mention that Trump would be worse, they tend to lash out at you instead.
Ha I was debating (?) some gradbears with the argument that not voting against Donnie would result in more suffering but their replies can be summed up as “not my problem, I’d feel worse if I did”
I left my primary ballot blank. There was nobody on the ticket who wasn’t going to continue the genocide (with perhaps Marianna Williamson as an exception, but I’m not indulging her vanity campaign). Come November, I suspect I’ll be in the same spot. Two candidates who are endorsing genocide, with the caveat that one is waving an Israeli sports pennant while the other repeatedly insists he feels really bad about it.
Swing by Gaza. We’ll sell the Israelis the next round of ammo used to wipe you off the face of the Earth.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban, or legislation criminalizing trans people, it would really mess with your calculus.
Hey don’t blame them they just learned about Kony sorry Palestine and now it’s the make or break thing for them
deleted by creator
Hey now, that’s not true. He’s also responsible for getting his Too Woke judicial nominees filibustered, appointing a bunch of corporate flacks to the Federal Reserve, doing photo ops at the US-Mexico border while wearing tacti-cool kit and frowning through a pair of binoculars, and fucking up the handling of the next environmental / weather disaster. And who can forget the most important job of any President? Fundraising!
Then we’re already fucked, because that would imply all this hemming and hawing about abortion being a losing issue for Republicans failed to pan out and now a bunch of sadistic right-wing fucks are crowding into the House and Senate.
If 2024 was the last election ever, then your logic makes complete sense, and I get to liberals every election is the last election ever, despite us seeing Trump’s desperate and flawed attempts at seizing power. He didn’t get more intelligent in the last 4 years or learn from his mistakes.
Imagine a crazy, crazy world, where Trump wins in 2024 and there’s a 2028 election. I know this is hard for some moderate libs to fathom, but you should recognize it as a real possibility.
If it’s incredibly clear that Biden lost because he’s Genocide Joe, then the next Democratic candidate might be someone younger who is ready to end the genocide (which the U.S is perfectly capable of single-handedly doing).
I’ve met people online that absolutely refuse to even acknowledge this is a possible world. They think Genocide Joe is the absolute best, pro-Gaza leader the Democratic party could ever put forth, and that losing elections due to issues like supporting genocide could never change the rhetoric and actions of future candidates in the party.
It’s fucking mind-numbing how little thought people put into this. Like I’m happy to agree that in a world where Trump wins, the years 2024-2028 are going to be worse in about every conceivable way, but then as we get into 2028 and beyond, there are scenarios that play out better for leftists in that world (e.g we get an anti-genocide, socialist leftist instead of some moderate Republican who is a reincarnation of Biden except on some social issues). The fact that moderate libs REFUSE to acknowledge this possibility is fucking exhausting.
And I’m not saying that it’s guaranteed to be better 2028 and beyond, it’s absolutely not, nobody can make guarantees about the future, but there is undeniable potential value in having Biden lose this election when you look beyond the next 4 years.
Removed by mod
Removed, rule 3:
“Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”
In your scenario there would be no Gaza to save in 2028.
False premise.
You’re speaking in certainties when you cannot. The genocide has been perpetuated, on and off, for 75 years. This is the most killing we’ve seen in the region in a short span of time, but we have seen figures close to this in the past 75 years.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
There’s also a world where Biden is reelected, his campaign keeps greenlighting the genocide with periodic rhetorical criticism, and then some other fascist Republican or moderate fiscal conservative Democrat comes in in 2028 and finishes the job (the Democrats now emboldened to further ignore the genocide because it costs them nothing).
It’s easier online to speak in certainty about the future, I understand that, but please if you’re going to bother engaging please don’t do it in bad-faith and actually admit where your knowledge ends. You’re not clairvoyant.
You just need to read the headline to this post, not even the article, to see where this argument is a non starter.
I don’t believe Trump’s campaign promises are unwavering truisms that come to fruition 100% of the time. I’m glad you have so much faith in the promises he makes though, so much so that you’d literally call them a certainty and disregard any other possible reality just simply on the basis that Trump said it.
I’ve met a good number of Trump supporters that don’t even have this kind of faith, only his most devout followers take his promises as premonitions of the future.
Don’t you think Egypt will let in refugees when Trump greenlights a Supergenocide?
Look up Project 2025. There will not be a 2028 election if Trump wins 2024. One Day Dictator Donnie won’t stop at one day.
He already tried to seize the capital through force. He has failed, he was the president for 4 fucking years and couldn’t figure out how to dismantle the government. He’s incredibly incompetent, I don’t know why every liberal in the world is clutching their pearls like he’s some kind of mastermind who grew and learned how to overthrow the country.
It’s not like he’s the one coming up with the plan. Project 2025 was written by much more cunning schemers. There are people who saw him fail to take the capital by force, and now seek to enable his success next time.
Trump is a figurehead. The man himself is nothing. If her gets elected, the smart people behind him who actually DO learn from past mistakes will have four years to reshape the government, and last time, things moved FAST.
Not voting does not send the message you think it does. It sends the message that you’re fine with the status quo and content to sit home and let things play out. “Protest” voting in the final election within a 2 party system is the same as not voting. It’s winner take all, and nothing else matters to these people.
I’ve responded to this exact sentiment in at least 4 comments and it’s getting exhausting. Either find my response to this or don’t engage, I don’t really give a fuck. It can’t possibly be my responsibility to educate every genocide-agnostic moderate-lib on the material reality of elections.
Ibid
Lol he already got the supreme court running interference for his attempted coup. Do you think the country is safe?
Project 2025. Downvote me. Shit on my very existence. But read what is planned.
If Trump wins in 2024 there won’t be a 2028 election, or at least a not a real one.
“I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…” oh please, just stop. How horrible is your life? You sound like a whiny liberal. People are dying all over the world, being murdered for religious beliefs, sexual preference, politics…etc…and you don’t want to live because “that big bad republican might become President…” Please…