A loud minority of Texans call for Independence, which is not really possible as far as I know, BUT could the Rest of the USA just kick another state (Not necessary Texas) out? Or is this also not possible?
The US Constitution currently has no mechanism to break any individual State out of the Union. Throughout our history, this has been interpreted as a sign that the Union is perpetual, and not able to be dissolved. This got put to the test in our Civil War, where a bunch of states up and said “We’re Leaving” and the Federal Government said “You can’t just do that”. They fought a war over it, and the Federal Government won, proving its position correct by force.
With that said, the US was founded as a government of the People, and so if the people want to carve out a way for States to leave, they must first establish a mechanism via amending the Constitution, which requires a 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress (or a Constitutional Convention) coupled with 3/4 of State Legislatures ratifying it.
There is a provision, though, to make States out of other States. Maine and West Virginia were both formed out of land that belonged to Massachusetts and Virginia.
You could just pass an amendment…
But specifically for kicking a state out I don’t think the bar is that high. If the legislature and executive agreed then it could be done very quickly.
Oh, but there are all sorts of details to work out…
- are citizens of the state no longer US citizens?
- if so, what happens to their Social Security? Medicare? I don’t want to keep paying for those freeloaders
- if they treat it like renouncing citizenship, they make those people pay taxes on all their assets and 401(k) holdings before leaving
- Do armed forces members from those states now get kicked out of the US armed forces and go to the new state’s armed forces?
- Does the new state get to take over any military bases and Federal buildings?
- Can the rest of us build a wall on the border and make them pay for it?
There’s a lot to iron out. The Brits got screwed with Brexit, and they weren’t even leaving a country.
it was worse than that and even dumber the UK was a founding member and had extra perks. That other EU members didn’t get and they threw all that away. Even if they do join back they will never get that deal again.
Even if they do join back they will never get that deal again.
and yet it’s still the most logical thing for them to do, security, trade and otherwise. it’ll hurt a bit, that sting is pride lol… but it’d still be the best thing for both the UK and EU.
otherwise eventually I see Ireland unifying and Scotland going to the EU lol.
Presumably those have been worked out in the bill Congress passed.
No lol your second statement is literally just wrong. The only way to do anything like this would be through an Amendment, which equated to literally changing the rules bc the current rules do not allow for it.
Is there something specifically saying you can’t?
No?
Question answered.
“Just” passing an amendment requires more than 75% of states to ratify the amendment. So even if all of Congress decided nuts to Delaware, we’re moving them out, it would still go to the state of legislatures to be formalized
Oh no the amendment is for if a state wants to leave. Since there’s no standard around kicking a state out at all, it defaults to 50+1 votes in Congress and a President willing to enforce it
This is literally just wrong dude
Why? How?
I expect at the very least you’d also need scotus to agree, though if legislative and executive are both willing to ignore them then …profit?
Yeah that’s the checks and balances. SCOTUS literally has no power without Congress or the President.
Yeah, but it wouldn’t be “legal” unless scotus agreed it was, even if it happened anyway.
No. SCOTUS does not have to agree to everything. In fact there’s no Constitutional power for them to take a law up for review without a case. They gave themselves that power.
Eh. They just leave. Not being prohibited to do so isn’t the same as not being allowed to, that’s why they had a war last time. There is a very strong argument that Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal, he just wasn’t philosophically wrong and also won.
What are you trying to say?
I was perfectly clear
Anything is possible with a constitutional amendment.
To further add, there is nothing in the Constitution which allows for having a state leave and the Constitution is where that process would be to be laid out. So, if a state wanted to leave and the rest of the country agreed, you would need a constitutional amendment to spell out that process.
Given the high bar required to amend the Constitution, having a state leave would need to be very popular politically.
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Dems suggest texas can texit if the GOP drafts it.
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GoP doesn’t want to blink, crafts it in a way that gives Texas power when it leaves, to please the howling magats
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Dems say "cool. These 31 states on both coasts are seceding. Using the process laid out, each coastal block will reorganize into its own group.
Now the red states are booted. Miller time.
There is no “gives Texas power” about that. If Texas were to leave, the big bargaining issues would be on water rights and what to do about social security.
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Or if most of the population just decides to ignore the constitution. But how likely is that?
If you poll half the population, they don’t even know what the Constitution says. They could be ignoring it now.
That would require Congress to be functional.
If it gets to that point, I think its more likely to declare the state in insurrection or rebellion and send in the army to passify it, rather than trying to expunge it.
Pacify*
yes, sorry, I am what you would call catastrophically sleep deprived so its a miracle i’m as legible as I am.
There’s some pretty valuable infrastructure in TX and many other states. They’d definitely take it back and give the idiots who are responsible for the trouble a token fine and gentle slap on the wrist. It’s an American tradition. They’ll probably execute the derps doing the actual funding though.
With enough approval, the US could do anything. It’s either Constitutional or it would be Constitutional after an amendment is passed and approved.
Honestly Texas just needs to split into five states. Not everyone in the state holds the same beliefs as the people who live in north and east Texas. The Houston and Austin areas are far more progressive and liberal.
Can you imagine how gerrymandered those state borders would be?
can a state be named after interstate 35?
Yeah and then those states can break into states and factions and — oh we got Mad Max, nice.
Luckily I’m not Texan, or even American.
Texas: the new Yorkshire
That’s too long. We should shorten it to New York.
It would’ve made sense if Yorkshire was a city, which, it isn’t.
No, what I was actually meaning was that Yorkshire was one of the historical counties of England. However, when you look at the administrative/postal counties, there’s actually 4 of them all called Yorkshire, one of them has an even longer name: “the East Riding of Yorkshire”.
So basically, if Texas want to split itself up, it should, just for shits and giggles, adopt the Yorkshire strategy, hence, the new Yorkshire.
Try counting the amount of times I’ve said “Yorkshire” in this reply.
Yeah. If Congress did it and the federal government just enforced it there’s not much anyone could do about it.
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Except with red states. Most are running in the negatives.
Texas is one of the few red states not running in the red.
Texas benefits enormously on federal spending. The reason it’s not in the red: f35, helo, rocket and other mil/space production that wouldn’t occur in “The United Counties of Texas”. Also subtract some of the largest mil installations on the planet - fort cavazos and fort bliss - plus dozens of other sites like Lackland/JBSA and Carswell/NASJRB ft worth and more… shittons of federal dollars going to texas.
Take it away - poof, texas is a lot of cattle and some windmills.
Sorry for the confusion, but “in the red” in this regard is a measure of how much the Fed spends in Texas vs how much (the people of) Texas sends to the Fed. Texas is one of the few red states not in the negative.
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Texas is one of the few red states not in the negative.
dude. that’s my premise:
The reason it’s not - fed spending. take that away? texas becomes a cattleocracy.
I think you are missing a ton of Fortune 500 companies Headquartered in Texas… Dell, Oracle, Tesla, Exxon, HPE, Charles Schwab, Texas Instruments… No state has more Fortune 500 HQ’s than Texas.
Texas is a bunch of big blue cities surrounded by cattleocracy.
Sooooo Alabama?
I suppose it’s possible but it would never happen unless that state basically committed an outright act of war against the rest of the US. At that point they probably would have left the US on their own though.
And even in that scenario the US government would probably send in the military to forcibly take that state back before they just give up and force them to leave.
It’s not possible legally or Constitutionally; it’s possible in that they can secede by amending the Constitution, or by winning a war of secession, but that’s it. They can’t leave and they can’t be kicked out.
Though they could be divided into or amongst other, smaller States.
Technically winning a war of secession would have to end with an amendment to the constitution too, unless it ended with the eradication of “the USA”
A loud minority of Texans call for Independence, which is not really possible as far as I know
I’m a history illiterate so maybe I’m wrong but I’m sure lots of countries thought that before an insurrection. Not that I think Texas would rebel but literally why couldn’t they?
As far as the legal and historical precedent goes - we fought a war over it.
There is no provision that allows a state to vacate or get kicked out. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
The district of columbia is not a state so it’s probably an easier place to start.
As a Texan who is working to create change in this state, please don’t kick us out. We aren’t only the bad things you see on the news. We can offer you:
Brisket
Big Tex
Cowboy Hats
Willie Nelson
Chuck Norris
Fried (insert any food group)
Everything cool about Austin
Czech kolaches
Boots galore
And so much more.Help us. We are a lot more purple than the news makes it seem, and we have been gerrymandered to the point that we need more than a simple majority to create change. If you can find it in your hearts to assist us in becoming a swing state, the whole nation stands to inherit all the things that made Texas an iconic part of the country in the first place. We are worth the effort.
No, they cannot. I hope someone gives you a more in depth answer because I’m very sleepy. Socially, just because a state votes red doesn’t mean that everyone there is awful. It would not be fair to those citizens.
I do believe that texas has the right to secede. It won’t happen, but it was part of the bargin to rejoin after the Civil War.
Belief has nothing to do with anything. The resolution that granted Texas membership into the Union allowed for Texas to divide itself into five separate States, but not to leave the Union.
Quote the exact text of law or Constitution that informs your belief a state can secede, bud, or you should change that belief. Not understanding that states can’t secede is dangerous. Being told to stop slavery was why all the southern states tried to secede before the Civil War, but the war actually happened because they tried to secede and they’re not allowed to.
Don’t forget: united, we stand. It’s as true today as it ever was.
They didn’t secede because they were told to stop slavery. They seceded because it looked that the national consensus was moving against the expansion of slavery to new states and territories, which would have limited slave states overall power in the long run.
They were very explicit that they were leaving to protect slavery as an institution, but to be fair nobody in power was threatening to abolish it when they did so.
I’ll cede that, I was massively oversimplifying in the name of time. I did know that the federal government at the time was very willing to compromise to keep the southern states in the union, and that the whole reason the South went ahead with the Civil War was because they saw that their economic engine would be dismantled over time even if they agreed to the compromises.
But it all just goes to show how it’s semantics to say it was state’s rights instead of slavery that caused the war, in the same way it’s semantics to say my mother died of liver failure instead of cancer, or that a person jumping off a cliff was killed by the massive internal trauma from the sudden stop, instead of the fall.
Yeah, I was trying to be careful with my comment not to imply the reason for secession was “states rights” since there are still plenty of idiots who are happy to bang that drum.
