Not being shot also helps
Also not being run over by cars, and having the ability to walk/bike/take transit to get to places.
Netherlands doesn’t represent the whole europe. This isn’t the cycling/public transport utopia you think it is.
I’m well aware on account of living in non-Netherlands Europe.
It’s a mixed bag for sure, but Europe as a whole does better on both the metrics I mentioned as compared to the U.S.
While true compared to the USA almost every city in Europe is a bicycle dream.
Maybe biking is an exception, but for public transportation and walking, it is absolutely true that pretty much all of Europe is much better. It’s not even close.
Universal healthcare might help but it is also–
- Auto accidents driven by car culture.
- Higher drug and alcohol abuse rates.
- Higher suicide rates driven by access to firearms.
- A culture of unhealthy eating that leads to obesity, heart disease, and increased risk of cancer.
Is alcohol abuse more prevalent in the US?
The US alcohol consumption avg. is 2.51 gallons, or 9.5 litres per person and year. In the EU the average is also 9.5 litres per person and year. For drug abuse i know the US have the specific opiod problem, but that also seems to be a result of a poor healthcare system, where taking painkillers until addiction is chosen over actually solving the underlying injuries for monetary reasons.
Point 3 is just wrong.
Japanese don’t have easy access to guns and yet Japan has one of the highest suicide rates.
Same with Uruguay, highest suicide rate in America without having easy access to guns.
The suicide rate obviously has multiple contributing factors, but access to firearms is absolutely one of them. There’s multiple studies on this that will come up in a quick web search. In general, access to anything that makes suicide more impulsive increases the suicide rate. I say this as a person who absolutely believes that access to firearms should be the default state for those that want it.
This is a myth. The suicide rate in Japan is lower than the US, and similar to European countries. South Africa, Russia, and Korea have bonkers suicide rates.
Opportunity and desire both contribute to rate. Firearms increase opportunity so more of those with desire will try. Some cultures also give more people the desire so more attempts will be made using other methods. It is not either or.
Access to firearms increases the rate of suicide. He may have worded it poorly but the point stands. The fact that other countries have worse rates of suicide without firearms notwithstanding, because if they had access to firearms, it would be even higher.
Plus less stress due to a culture that values family and recreation time.
As pointed out, guns are a means to suicide, not the cause. While I do believe in gun control, until we have physician assisted suicide, guns are some of the most reliable ways for people to have a say in when their life ends.
Take away the guns(the this specific circumstance, not talking about other gun related issues) and the suicide rate will maybe go down, but the rate of unsuccessful, excruciating, and possibly disfiguring/disabling suicide attempts will absolutely go up.
Don’t underrate the amount of walking Europeans do compared to Americans. That casual exercise makes a huge difference. Europe is much more urban than the US and they generally walk a lot more than we do.
Not saying it’s enough to be in the best shape of your life but it’s really good for you.
About point 4, there is this really weird phenomenon that people going one way or the other replicate the same results without consciously changing the way you eat. Americans eating “unhealthy” in Europe get better and Europeans “eating healthy” in the US get worse.
Off work late? Hungry, but too tired to cook? Try 30 to 40 olives. 30 to 40 olives: an easy weeknight dinner. eat them directly out of the jar with your fingers. you will certainly not regret eating 30 to 40 olives.
So. Much. Sodium.
Why is sodium bad?
That much all at once and you’ll probably shit your pants.
More generally sodium increases your blood pressure and water retention, both of which can be bad, depending on your health situation, but are primarily uncomfortable for young, healthy people.
There is no research that links sodium to blood pressure, just an old unproven hypothesis (based on the idea that salt increases the density of water in the test tube) and a lot of advertising
I found 85 studies (in a meta analysis) that link them here. If you disagree, you can just say so though, you don’t need to hide it in a question. I would have given you a source the first time if I knew it was more than just curiosity.
Salt research is a mess: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9174123/
Those on a high sodium diet are generally on a high processed food diet, and that’s pretty unhealthy by itself
Those on low salt are generally on a whole food diet which is healthier (kale has little salt, salmon has little salt)
The people on the processed food are also probably poorer, which is independently a factor in poor health
It is a mess and those confounding factors do muddy things to a degree. That’s the benefit in a meta analysis, but of course if you put garbage data in, you get garbage data out.
The study you posted is brutal about studies that suggest that salt is not bad for you. It’s a pretty aggressive call out of industry sponsored “scientists” who publish ill-supported findings suggesting salt isn’t bad for people. I deliberately tried to find a less incendiary link, so as not to put you on the defensive. I’m not sure what you’re saying with it, but this now feels more like the Socratic method to me.
Lol are you for real?
This is the only reason I pace myself. That and if I’m going to binge I’ll rinse them first.
…this is why I rarely keep olives at home.
Good point–they make a terrific snack in the office or on the go! 30 to 40 olives… mmmmm
Olives? Just stab me, it’ll be less painful.
I love olives. I didn’t think you could have too many olives.
Once, on my honeymoon, I was at an expensive buffet. I found out just how many olives is too many olives. It was something like 35. More than that many olives is too many olives.
Ummm Olives and Olive Oil are good for you and does lead to better health outcomes.
woooooosh
Not just universal health care but general lifestyle. But fast food, lack of amenities, and increasing reliance on cars will mean some Europeans turn into sedentary obese blobs and suffer the same health complications, if not expense, as their American counterparts.
We have fast food here, and in many places public transport is bad enough that you have to drive to not be fired for being late to work too many times.
It’s just that with most healthcare concerns, we don’t need to remortgage the house…
Mostly a UK problem though. Source: British living in EU
Also a problem in France. I have family in southern France, and there’s plenty of American fast food restaurants around, all very popular.
If eating olives makes you live longer, I’ll just die young.
Yech.
But olive oil is amazing.
I hate whole olives, but a great olive oil with bread is one of the essential joys in this world.
I’m okay with it as long as the taste isn’t overpowering.
Upon hearing your anti olive stance OPEC (Olive Producing European Countries) have decided to have you executed. Once again proving that eating olives increases your life expectancy.
Worth it.
otherwise known as superior civilization. downvote away, barbarians
Bravo!!
I would love to not have to pay $800usd +$200 monthly insurance just to get a questionable mole removed :')
They take a little over one third of my pay check in taxes, which includes welfare (pension, etc) and healthcare, wealth tax and stuff.
You still pay for it, but when it really makes the difference is for the unlucky, who need lengthy and/or expensive care, they are supported by the better off, “mutual assistance”.
Of course some people want to reap the benefits of living in a modern society without having to do their part.
It is also much cheaper. The US spends double the amount of money per capita on healthcare than compareable western european countries.
Universal healthcare is so much more efficient. When Obama was asked why he just wanted to do the ACA and not universal healthcare he said, that there is 3 million jobs in the adminsitrative side of private health insurance, that would fall away otherwise. But those people could work other jobs and provide a benefit to the economy. The inefficiency of the US system is insane.
Garbage conservative misinformation whether on purpose or not.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
The US spends wildly more per capita on healthcare than any other country and we have worse outcomes and worse service. Of course you still have to pay for public healthcare, it is much, much less expensive though. The US is wildly overpaying for worse healthcare due to corruption and market failure.
Actually a lot of countries I find are getting a ton of propaganda that private Healthcare is “good”. That public/universal is bad. They apply the misinformation pressure towards taxes and wait time for an appointment. Saying private will be their salvation.
Of course we know different. We know we wait just as long as they do(in fact usually longer), pay 3x+ more for shoddy service. That the doctors are tired going through hoops, they just want to treat their patients. But the news in those countries seem heavily pressured to say otherwise. While visiting i saw some fucked up commercials and even a 2hr long news episode saying private is basically a godsend. Really eerie. Of course no system is perfect, yet, so it’s easy to point at the universal “failures” … but private will exacerbate all of those issues. They don’t tell them that though.
So I don’t think the guy was purposefully being malicious, but definitely on the receiving end of some of that propaganda.
I really don’t care about what you guys do, I’m just sharing how it works so people don’t think it just falls from the sky.
You’re all so fucking polarized in your political standoff that you can’t even read a simple descriptive post without thinking THE OTHER SIDE IS UP TO SOMETHING. Chill the fuck down.
We know, we already pay high taxes in most states. For most people, universal healthcares monthly charges would be 2-3x less than they pay on monthly insurance alone. Then we also have added costs, premiums, deductibles we have to hit (usually pay in 3k+ yearly to hit the deductible) and then they can still charge 20% on any costs accrued. It’s hell.
I shouldn’t have to debate between cancer and food/rent for a minor, 15 min procedure.
Bub. Including the amount I end up paying for Healthcare, they take way over a third of my paycheck.
Edit- also hold up, you still get pensions over there??
Edit- also hold up, you still get pensions over there??
uhm, well, others do, of course Millenials will have to settle with just dying early
Yeah, no. They have 70 different systems and what you’re talking about is the Mediterranean diet.
… which is also quite problematic:
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/6/20/17464906/mediterranean-diet-science-health-predimed
oh. Vox. that’s definitive.
Did you read it? The whole article cites papers in every paragraph
Yeah, I did. Seems like much ado about nothing.
Vox was started by Ezra Klein and has a good reputation in academia for explanatory journalism.
Which afaik still is in a scientific debate, and probably not in itself responsible for people in those countries being more healthy
Anecdotalish, but I’m not american. People I know work in the states for a period of time tend to mention they gain weight while in the states for a time, and then lose it when they get home, back to baseline, and they really can’t quite put their finger on why. I figure corn syrup. It’s like as subtle as the HP sauce, the stuff in England has a different recipe than the American, white vinegar, orange juice concentrate, corn syrup etc in the American one, basically cheaper ingedients, the English original has a subtler, less vinegar harsh, smokier flavour.
It’s not often discussed but as waiting lists can be long for free at point of use health care, most big companies offer private healthcare for employees that costs ~£50 per month.
I find that a very good deal.
Waiting lists are long over here in the US too, depending on the specialty and region. We’re simply overpaying for the same quality healthcare while still failing to get 100% coverage.
This is incorrect.
We are overpaying for lower quality healthcare.
We have worse outcomes than countries with free healthcare.
As my father used to say “it may be bad, but it’s expensive.”
As my father used to say “it may be bad, but it’s expensive.”
“You can find better quality but you can’t pay more”. Is the phrasing I heard.
I’d have to look at the most recent numbers, but the usual addage is that rich countries (US included) all have roughly the same overall quality of care, but they each have areas they’re particularly good or bad in. We’re particularly bad at maternal and neonatal care, but we’re quite good at cancer. It’s been a while since I’ve dived into the numbers, though.
Yes the exception is places like Massachusetts, which has some of the best quality healthcare in the world. But, you guessed it, they have a universal healthcare system similar to Germany.
You know what’s fun? In the US, we still have “concierge doctors”, who charge an annual fee just to have access to their offices. This is on top of the cost of insurance, assuming they accept it, and it can be thousands of dollars per year. This additional fee also lets you “skip the line”, since non-concierge doctors can have a many-month wait for “new patient” appointments.
I’m so glad we don’t have to worry about all those problems that come with public healthcare systems. /s
My doctor just moved and became one of those. I’m very mad at her for leaving cus she’s freaking awesome.
My son’s pediatrician operates her practice in a “direct primary care” model, which is sort of concierge-light with a significantly lower monthly fee. There are some catches, and it doesn’t replace proper insurance so I’m still paying for that on top of the monthly office fee. But on the other hand, our appointments aren’t a rush-job where we get like five minutes of face-time with the pediatrician and then shuttled out the door, and we can message her any time of the day to ask “yo what’s this rash” and usually get an answer (and occasionally a script for an ointment) within a half-hour, without having to go through the rigamarole of trying to get an appointment that’s usually so far out you’re better off waiting and hoping the problem resolves itself.
Is this the UK? As (company) private schemes in the UK allow you to jump the queue, pushing people who cant or wont pay further back down the queue.
Its also significantly cheaper than the actual cost of a fully privatised solution because its subsidised by the NHS.
Majority of Doctors and Nurses who do private work spend the bulk of their working week for the NHS, and a large percentage of them were trained by the NHS.
Do I blame people who go private because they do not want to wait? No, but its also not a good argument for further privatisation as further expansion of this system reduces capacity of the NHS.
Yes, UK.
I’m against further privatisation as the competition it was meant to create just led to inefficiency. Example: public health providers now hire sales staff to win them contacts. Also data sharing became difficult between areas.
It’s all a massive conspiracy, just like how they said carrots are good for your eyes.
Yeah, let’s eat meat, smoke and drink heavily. 🤷♂️/s
As someone living in a country with universal healthcare I truly do wish it was like people online make it sound to be. Turns out you got to wait for a long time to see a doctor and you have to pay for it. Obviously it wont bankrupt you like it would in the US, but it’s not exactly free either.
Depends on the implementation. Every single EU country does it slightly different. Here in Romania it’s 100% paid for via taxation, the only thing you have to pay out of pocket for is heavily subsidized medication if it’s been prescribed, and wait times are actually pretty ok.
The downside is we don’t have any of the fancy new toys in any state-owned hospital due to a lack of funding, which means more complex surgeries are riskier, the latest and greatest medicine doesn’t exist here and Romanian doctors have to rely more on the basics.
It’s all trade-offs.
That’s usually down to underfunding than anything else, though. The NHS, for example, is a shadow of what it was like 20 years ago, thanks to years of purposeful underfunding.
And the prupose of the underfunding is to create the conditions on which to sell a fully privatized healthcare system to the population.
Yep, and sadly to many it works really well. There are plenty of people in the UK that believe that we should just tear it down and put a private sector in to fund itself. Most of them are blissfully unaware that they earn below the average threshold, and with cost of living being what it is here, they would be absolutely fucked should they need treatment.
I’d say it’s funny how Americans love some European approaches to healthcare, while some European countries have bought into the US system as an option - but it’s frankly upsetting that people would turn their back on nationalised healthcare because some right-wing cunts want to underfund it…
I think most of those people you’re referring to that are making it sound so good, are Americans who are pining for it. And rightfully so.
And anyone implying that there aren’t wait times in the US are full of shit.
Another point is that universal healthcare creates a free (or close to) baseline that private healthcare has to compete with.
If there’s a free (or close to) option, the paid option has to be better to win people over to it. This can make overall healthcare better.
On the other hand, if there’s no universal healthcare the private healthcare can simple be as bad as it wants. This can mean that overall healthcare is worse.
I think even if you aren’t using the universal healthcare, your care is improved just by it being there.
Same. I live in Germany and used to live in the US (both with and without insurance). I would rather be here and support this system where everyone has access to Healthcare, but there is much I miss from the US. The care I got in the US (obviously stupid expensive) was better, easier and quicker. With that said, the care here is fine and enough and available for all but shouldn’t be viewed through the rose colored glasses of americans.
I think it is a bit unfair to speak of rose colored glasses there.
There is many people in the US who simply cannot afford an ambulance being called for them, if they are in a serious health situation. The people that have “rose colored” glasses in this context are the people whose options are “any healthcare” and “no healthcare”.
Yeah, I’m not sure it’s fair to compare the insurance they got through their employer at $400 a month with the basic free tier of a system of universal health care.
Fair comment, but don’t think that I don’t know how it is. I lived in the US for 28 years. The first 19 or 20 of which I had no insurance of any kind and was also fairly poor. I know all about not being able to see a doctor when sick or hurt.
Not sure how long ago you lived in the US, but things have changed in terms of doctor availability and wait times in the past decade or two. Many people can’t even find a GP because theirs retired (or stopped taking their insurance), and literally no other doctor near them that is in their network is currently taking on new patients. I’m not sure it’s any better here anymore in terms of wait times.
It was about 8 years ago. So a bit of time, but not soooo long. I know how it was, at least in my area of the US, and it is worse here in most ways.
Another Big Oil op
/s
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