I feel like anyone who still believes that crap that age necessarily brings wisdom needs to be prevented from making any political decisions at any cost.
That is by no means a given! In fact we should expect a counter-movement within the church, as that’s what happens if a leader is gone that was pushing the organization in a more progressive direction against the will of many influential members.
They will definitely not appoint an even more progressive pope after him. He was “the progressive pope” for a time and now they will shift gears in the other direction for a time. The Catholic Church is not on some steady progressive march. Especially the way politics are going around the world, you can expect a very anti-woke pope next.
This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked. The lies worked.
He wasn’t progressive, he was a hard conservative, homophonic, misogynist who defended pedos and spewed hollow platitudes while sitting on a trillion dollars. But the church put him in place and threw a huge propaganda machine behind him and you bought it
Edit: to the pedo lovers in this thread who are gonna miss king pedo
Did you even see the earlier Popes? He did everything you say and yet this guy was liberal by every definition compared to the guy he replaced. Benedict was nasty and he knew it.
He said a lot. Did the opposite and continued the church’s status quo, you’re a fool if you think his pro lgbt talk was sincere, actions speak louder than words
This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked.
Conspiracy theorists are so weird… Like do you imagine a smokey room with the pope and a group of cardinals talking about how they want to represent the church in a completely opposite way to how they want it to be? Or is there a “shadow church” that controls it all and the pope is unaware?
Which marvel movie best reflects the situation do you think?
I mean, the Catholic Church is a political organization that has global reach, I don’t think it’s a wild conspiracy that they carefully consider their appearance.
This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked. The lies worked. He wasn’t progressive, he was a hard conservative,
This phrase, right here, sounds like it came from a conspiracy theorist. Because that’s exactly how conspiracy theorists rationalize things. Anything that counters my belief is “lies” and it’s just a “PR experiment”. It can’t possibly be that the pope is, like most people, complex with varied beliefs and potentially even contradictory beliefs.
But they do have a pr department. The holy see is a political organization. They are an internationally recognized government with diplomatic relationships. While not a member state of the UN they are permanent observers and influence decision making on a worldwide scale, and it’s not a secret that the church, which is run by the same person as the holy see (the Pope) has had its fair share of controversy.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think the holy see spends time and effort in order to make their appearance, and the appearance of the church, look better.
He’s the internally appointed CEO of a cult persuading people to believe that ghosts are real. The blessing of same-sex couples is a stunt the catholic church pulled to save face in 21st century, their different treatment of homosexual couples still speak loud about their cult homophobia.
You are hard pressed to be more of an atheist than I am.
You expect dogma to be nullified with a snap of finger? Even more when that same dogma is taken from the book on which the creed is built upon?
As if people require any sort of excuse to shun and persecute those who are different.
I find it more important countries to codify into law the right for anyone, regardless gender or sexual orientation, to enjoy the same rights, including marriage if so they choose but like it or not, a man forcing that small change into a monolithic, organized, religion is something to be recognized.
Those can be some of the worst individuals in the church, and some of the best, at the same time.
There are incredibly forward thinking, humanist and humane individuals acting as local parish priests, individuals that entered the ranks for personal calling and devotion, doing their best to push back on backwards thought and belief on “pious” communities. Those should garner wide support, when it is the exact opposite that happens, with usually the most reprobate and closed minded individuals being seen as “good” priest and thus rising in the ranks, to keep the status quo, one generation after the other.
Institutions are made of people. That man did little but achieved something to move the creed in a better direction. Most just tend to small affairs or outright go for even more dogmatic understandings of outdated subjects, which by itself drives away more people.
Now that I think about it, as reading or being knowledgeable of what any “holy” book holds is the best way to create atheists, maybe those are doing the best job.
Even the “best” individuals in the catholic church are still the members of a homophobic and misogynist cult persuading people to believe that ghosts are real. catholic church bending and changing its own sacred holy laws as it suit them is more proof of their bullshits.
There is being atheist and there is being anti-theist.
The way you express yourself, it seems you lean more into the second. Which I find intriguing because in order to be anti-theist, you first need to give any value to the theist claims.
As you do seem very invested in supporting and uplifting those that are wronged by a creed, why do you opt to attack any and all believer, by default, instead of trying to find people that share your exact concerns?
It doesn’t matter if someone takes Santa Claus, the Krampus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy as real or if they hold the hope of meeting again their loved ones after they die. People are here, today, living, breathing, suffering.
The bending and changing of those same “holy” precepts is what allows people to diverge abd evolve the way they understand others and the world.
Anti-theism fell out of favour in the 2010’s. Too much vitriol. Reason does not cancel hope and dreams but it should cancel hollow arguments, including those reason itself raises.
I’m actually sad about this one. He was by far the best pope of my lifetime.
Low bar.
True but he exceeded the existing bar by a lot.
Yes, but if the next one is a little better, and the next one, and the next one…
The church evolves very slowly.
Doesn’t help they pick the oldest guys in the room to become the pope.
That’s why they keep doing it, same thing in politics. Old people holding back progress in a desperate attempt to grasp onto power just a bit longer.
I mean, I think they’re also choosing old people to be pope because it’s a “for life” thing. Plus the whole wisdom aspect and shit since it’s religion
I feel like anyone who still believes that crap that age necessarily brings wisdom needs to be prevented from making any political decisions at any cost.
That is by no means a given! In fact we should expect a counter-movement within the church, as that’s what happens if a leader is gone that was pushing the organization in a more progressive direction against the will of many influential members.
They will definitely not appoint an even more progressive pope after him. He was “the progressive pope” for a time and now they will shift gears in the other direction for a time. The Catholic Church is not on some steady progressive march. Especially the way politics are going around the world, you can expect a very anti-woke pope next.
Speed bump.
I feel depressed watching someones last days no matter who they are. R.i.p. I think it was brave of him to be in public for so long.
He had the dopest pope rock album too, I imagine that record will stand
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This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked. The lies worked. He wasn’t progressive, he was a hard conservative, homophonic, misogynist who defended pedos and spewed hollow platitudes while sitting on a trillion dollars. But the church put him in place and threw a huge propaganda machine behind him and you bought it
Edit: to the pedo lovers in this thread who are gonna miss king pedo
https://youtu.be/DUlj48Rvp1c
I think he was the first Pope Francis. But even if he were the second, that wouldn’t make him a homophone.
I guess all popes are homophonic in some languages, like in Spanish “la papa” is potato and “el papa” is pope.
You win the award for funniest spelling pedantry of the month.
Did you even see the earlier Popes? He did everything you say and yet this guy was liberal by every definition compared to the guy he replaced. Benedict was nasty and he knew it.
He said a lot. Did the opposite and continued the church’s status quo, you’re a fool if you think his pro lgbt talk was sincere, actions speak louder than words
Conspiracy theorists are so weird… Like do you imagine a smokey room with the pope and a group of cardinals talking about how they want to represent the church in a completely opposite way to how they want it to be? Or is there a “shadow church” that controls it all and the pope is unaware?
Which marvel movie best reflects the situation do you think?
I mean, the Catholic Church is a political organization that has global reach, I don’t think it’s a wild conspiracy that they carefully consider their appearance.
This phrase, right here, sounds like it came from a conspiracy theorist. Because that’s exactly how conspiracy theorists rationalize things. Anything that counters my belief is “lies” and it’s just a “PR experiment”. It can’t possibly be that the pope is, like most people, complex with varied beliefs and potentially even contradictory beliefs.
No. It’s “lies from a PR department”. 🙄
But they do have a pr department. The holy see is a political organization. They are an internationally recognized government with diplomatic relationships. While not a member state of the UN they are permanent observers and influence decision making on a worldwide scale, and it’s not a secret that the church, which is run by the same person as the holy see (the Pope) has had its fair share of controversy.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think the holy see spends time and effort in order to make their appearance, and the appearance of the church, look better.
“I don’t think it’s a stretch” and “they have a PR department” are not “evidence”.
lol we have proof of these people causing genocides and raping children but sure that’s far fetched
Proof of things “A” is not proof of things “B”
Don’t be sad, he was as just bad as any of his colleagues.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/11/world/europe/pope-francis-homophobic-slur.html
I have terrible news for you if you think using a homophobic slur is as bad as anything the previous popes and cardinals have been doing.
Isn’t this ‘whataboutism’?
The homophobic slurs should also be a reminder that the catholic church is a homophobic cult.
This was tbe same man that said being homosexual isn’t a crime and doesn’t merit persecution for it, albeit by the catholic creed being a sin.
An insult is only as long someone allows it to be.
Downvote away.
He’s the internally appointed CEO of a cult persuading people to believe that ghosts are real. The blessing of same-sex couples is a stunt the catholic church pulled to save face in 21st century, their different treatment of homosexual couples still speak loud about their cult homophobia.
You are hard pressed to be more of an atheist than I am.
You expect dogma to be nullified with a snap of finger? Even more when that same dogma is taken from the book on which the creed is built upon?
As if people require any sort of excuse to shun and persecute those who are different.
I find it more important countries to codify into law the right for anyone, regardless gender or sexual orientation, to enjoy the same rights, including marriage if so they choose but like it or not, a man forcing that small change into a monolithic, organized, religion is something to be recognized.
I expect homophobic cult leaders to be called out for what they are and not praised or defended
Then start by the first line priests.
Those can be some of the worst individuals in the church, and some of the best, at the same time.
There are incredibly forward thinking, humanist and humane individuals acting as local parish priests, individuals that entered the ranks for personal calling and devotion, doing their best to push back on backwards thought and belief on “pious” communities. Those should garner wide support, when it is the exact opposite that happens, with usually the most reprobate and closed minded individuals being seen as “good” priest and thus rising in the ranks, to keep the status quo, one generation after the other.
Institutions are made of people. That man did little but achieved something to move the creed in a better direction. Most just tend to small affairs or outright go for even more dogmatic understandings of outdated subjects, which by itself drives away more people.
Now that I think about it, as reading or being knowledgeable of what any “holy” book holds is the best way to create atheists, maybe those are doing the best job.
Even the “best” individuals in the catholic church are still the members of a homophobic and misogynist cult persuading people to believe that ghosts are real. catholic church bending and changing its own sacred holy laws as it suit them is more proof of their bullshits.
There is being atheist and there is being anti-theist.
The way you express yourself, it seems you lean more into the second. Which I find intriguing because in order to be anti-theist, you first need to give any value to the theist claims.
As you do seem very invested in supporting and uplifting those that are wronged by a creed, why do you opt to attack any and all believer, by default, instead of trying to find people that share your exact concerns?
It doesn’t matter if someone takes Santa Claus, the Krampus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy as real or if they hold the hope of meeting again their loved ones after they die. People are here, today, living, breathing, suffering.
The bending and changing of those same “holy” precepts is what allows people to diverge abd evolve the way they understand others and the world.
Anti-theism fell out of favour in the 2010’s. Too much vitriol. Reason does not cancel hope and dreams but it should cancel hollow arguments, including those reason itself raises.