• @frezik@midwest.social
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    1 year ago

    The “problem” with that tax is that if it’s applied fairly, it gets very big very fast. The damage to the road goes up with weight, but not linearly. Not a square factor, either. Not even cube. It’s to the fourth power.

    Start applying that to long haul trucks and the whole industry will be bankrupt in a month. The implication being that we are all subsidizing that industry with taxes on roads. Including that one trucker with a “who is John Galt?” sticker on the back.

    That said, this is also a very good argument for improving cargo trains to the point where most long haul trucking goes away.

    • @cogman@lemmy.world
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      591 year ago

      And frankly, I’m really ok with this.

      Trains should be the backbone for shipping. They are WAY more fuel efficient, like 3 to 4x more efficient than shipping by truck. Rail requires far less maintenance. And there’s always the option install a 3rd rail and use electricity instead of fossil fuels to ship.

    • @grue@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Speaking of road tax, you know that bad-faith argument about how cyclists need to pay our “fair share?” Well, I would be happy to pay 1¢ for my 10 kg bicycle if everybody with a car had to pay fairly by weight4.

    • @Goronmon@lemmy.world
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      301 year ago

      No reason the tax had to scale exactly to match the damage though. At least make it painful enough so people consider whether a larger vehicle is worth it.

      • @frezik@midwest.social
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        111 year ago

        What I’m suggesting is to ramp up the tax on roads over several years in order to pay for the initial outlay on new train infrastructure. Then you don’t need 90% of the trucking industry at all.

        Which would be great for many other reasons.

        • @abhibeckert@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Train infrastructure is being removed around the world - good luck convincing people to build more.

          The fact is a train turns one trip into three trips - truck to the railway station, train to another station, truck to the final destination. That often adds days to what otherwise might be a 3 hour delivery - because trains are only cheap if you send about a hundred or so trucks full of cargo on a single trip.

          Only really makes sense for really long trips but more and more of those are done by ship or airplane. Trucks aren’t going anywhere.

      • Obinice
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        01 year ago

        What if it’s not a larger vehicle, but transitioning from a petrol burning vehicle to an electric vehicle?

        We don’t want to give people reasons to hold on to old combustion vehicles any longer than they have to, but the roads of course need to be made safe for passengers and pedestrians and wildlife, I agree.

        • @Vrtrx@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          If they hold on to their existing vehicle than thats just another upside. If they buy a new gasoline car instead of an EV this is bad. But EVs dont have to be insanely heavy if we stop the whole cars getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger crap. They will still be heavier than their gasoline counterpart but one solution might be 2 tax brackets: One for gasoline cars and one for evs that has the same taxation levels but allows for, lets say, 500kg more weight in them

    • @magiccupcake@lemmy.world
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      241 year ago

      So much of that freight should be moved by rail.

      Tax based on weight to 4th power would work if we nationalized railways like roads.

      • @hardcoreufo@lemmy.world
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        91 year ago

        Only if rail can figure out their shit and hire enough workers and give them all time off. Too many train derailments from precision scheduled railroading.

        • @magiccupcake@lemmy.world
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          81 year ago

          Actually maintained rail shouldn’t have this problem, but the private companies like Norfolk Southern spend the minimum amount to keep them operational.

          With a budget just a fraction of highway upkeep and expansion they should be able to be kept in good repair.

    • Billiam
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      181 year ago

      Yeah, I think turning highways back into methods of travel instead of “rolling warehouses saving Walmart a few bucks not storing anything on site” is a good thing.

    • JohnEdwa
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      1 year ago

      There’s no need to have the tax be the exact same for every vehicle class. Proper long haul trucks have to be heavy, private cars do not.

      The US already has 8 or 10 different vehicle classes defined by weight, the lightest being 6000lbs (which is still ridiculously high, my VW Up is 2200lbs).

    • @fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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      51 year ago

      In Australia (and I assume other similar countries) trucks have tax concessions to avoid the cost of food fluctuating too much with the cost of diesel. This tax doesn’t need to be any different.

      • @daltotron@lemmy.world
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        21 year ago

        Neither should lots of short haul trucking, more specifically drayage trucking, that industry sucks. We probably need to move more towards vans and stuff.

    • @anivia@lemmy.ml
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      11 year ago

      To be fair, it’s the fourth power of the axle weight, not vehicle weight. So it’s not as extreme for long haul trucks as you make it sound, but still much higher than for a car

    • @nothead@lemmy.world
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      11 year ago

      Trucks already pay a lot more in tax and regulatory expenses. In my state, annual car registration is $30-ish. Annual registration for a full-sized 18-wheeler is $1350 for the truck and $30-300 for each trailer. They also have to pay annual fees at the federal level which can be $600+/year, and an additional fuel tax on top of the existing state sales tax on diesel which I don’t know the rate of right now. All of that applies to every single power unit and trailer in a fleet.

      Trucks should be taxed much higher than cars, but too many people don’t know or just don’t care that this is already the case, and it has been this way since the 1940s.

        • @nothead@lemmy.world
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          01 year ago

          Based on your math, you’d be charging almost $2 million per year per truck. With that much money, you’d be building an entire nations worth of brand new infrastructure several times over each year.