- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
GAZA/TEL AVIV, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Israel’s government and Hamas agreed on Wednesday to a four-day pause in fighting to allow the release of 50 hostages held in Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, and the entry of humanitarian aid into the besieged enclave.
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This is such good news. Now the challenge is to keep both sides from reigniting.
I don’t really know what Hamas and Haniyeh and Sinwar want, so it’s hard to speculate what they’ll do, but I know that Netanyahu is trying to reignite the war as hard as he can, and will be desperate to see the ceasefire ended prematurely under circumstances he can blame on Hamas.
For those who haven’t followed his career (and his actions in the least week in particular) this seems abundantly clear. The absolute worst thing that could happen to him would be a deescalation that leads to an political negotiations. I really hope the US antiwar movement is prepared to increase their pressure, because I believe it’s made the difference in getting us this far. As furious as I’ve been at Biden’s response, I have read multiple reports that the US was far more involved in hostage negotiations than Israel, so I will give Biden this sliver of credit if people actually come home. But he really needs to stop propping up Bibi if he wants to land this plane for real.
I don’t really know what Hamas and Haniyeh and Sinwar want
Are you serious? They want the complete destruction of Israel. Have you never read anything Hamas has put out?
I think they might mean “want in an immediate sense”. Even Hamas isn’t deluded enough to think that they’re capable of destroying Israel at this moment.
No, but they knew exactly what the Israeli reaction would be, and that said reaction would end up providing a wave of freshly minted fighters.
Yeah, but I mean, what is their goal now? Like, in the next few months kind of immediate, the kind of immediate that would cause them to accept a truce? Freshly minted fighters don’t mean much if Israel gets away with ethnic cleansing, after all.
Rebuild all of their terror infrastructure and plan the next murder/rape/kidnapping of Israeli citizens.
Goal now is to get Israel to withdraw and use hostages to extract concessions including the release of kidnapped Palestinians in Israeli jails and humanitarian aid for beleaguered civilians. The military hostages are probably the highest value from a negotiation standpoint and will be kept the longest.
There’s a handful of people that really don’t want to acknowledge that
And these 150 prisoners are Hamas terrorists that will be exchanged for 50 innocent civilians.
So hamas will have more terrorists on their side to fan the flames for Netinyahu’s next response.
They’re Palestinian women and children, not terrorists. It’s a trade of innocents for innocents
13 women mostly convicted of stabbings.
Edit: 33 women are on the list of 300 total, I counted the Hebrew source material myself. 15+ is of those with stabbing charges and convictions or general attempted murder.
Overwhelming majority of minors did fucked up shit.
https://www.gov.il/he/Departments/DynamicCollectors/is-db?skip=0
Removed by mod
OK, terrorist. Attempting murder is bad.
They picked this set because Hamas asked for this set. The actual convicted murders weren’t allowed to be released.
There’s no hostages in Israel, there’s people being processed by the courts. If you think the wait times are bad go check out Japan and claim they have hostages, or the US prison system with constitutional slave labor and barely any public defenders with the largest per capita prison pop in the world.
There’s something like 50 women total held.
All of these people get charged there’s a reason almost no one on the list is there for more than 2 years without being tried in civil court. The military tribunal cases convert over when they get processed. They were charged and their charges are listed in the database.
They are terrorists.
Israel didn’t kidnap them for no reason. Unlike what Hamas does.
Go vote for Trump and believe in fake news.
The over a thousand people held without charges would disagree with you. Are trusted human rights organizations fake news now?
This is so dumb and reductive, though.
First, that goal is like trying to drink the ocean. It’s obviously impossible, so it’s not useful as an indicator for what they’ll agree to.
Second, we hear this over and over, but the only citation is their founding document over thirty years ago. And in 2006 they went through a moderate rebrand, and then a lot of people in the org died, and Sinwar spent two decades in Israeli prison, so… that doesn’t really tell us where they’re at in this moment.
Folks act like they’re orcs. Just mindlessly evil. They’re definitely completely ruthless, but the stuff they do isn’t that different from what the IRA did, and they still made peace. So what does Sinwar want? Has anyone thought to ask?
Try this reporting for motives of Sinwar. It’s a good listen.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/podcasts/the-daily/hamas-israel.htmlThanks. I’m excited to hear it.
Netanyahu: “We have creditable evidence that Hamas is experimenting with atomic weaponry. If nothing is done within 300 years, Hamas will have nukes!”
This is such good news. Now the challenge is to keep both sides from reigniting.
There was a ceasefire already in place prior to the 7th of October attacks
There was a blockade of Gaza since 2007.
A blockade is an act of war as defined by international law.
A ceasefire that doesn’t involve lifting the blockade is meaningless because the blockade is already an act of war.
They also assassinated their journalist Shireen Abu Akleh last year so idk what type of ceasefire it is when only one side gets to murder the others (but they didn’t drop any bombs so it’s ok).
And Hamas fired thousands of rockets at Israel during the ceasefire since 2007, is that also not an act of war?
That’s after the blockade, which is again an act of war.
The blockade was in response to the election of a known terrorist organization that was amassing weapons.
But hey, if you think it’s okay to try and murder Israeli civilians on the daily, why are you so mad at Israel killing Palestinian civilians? Seems pretty hypocritical of you.
The blockade started 3 months before Hamas was elected so… yeah. Israel declared war on Gaza before Hamas was even elected.
You mean the election that the Israeli government helped Hamas win, then used as an excuse to punish Palestinians? You fucking pro-Israelis are the biggest liars on the planet.
What’s your point? I don’t see how this relates to either my statement that it is good news that hostages are being released or my statement that it will be a challenge to keep both sides from reigniting.
Reuters – Bias and Credibility
Bias Rating: Least Biased
Factual Reporting: Very High
Country: United Kingdom
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: Mostly Free
Media Type: News Agency
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: High Credibility
The concept of evaluating media for bias and conflating that with factuality is, frankly, terrifying. A site’s political views is not necessarily representative of its factuality, but Media Bias Fact Check consistently penalizes sites that have “never failed a fact check” because they are not considered to be “least biased.”
These sites bite off more than they can chew. They’re extremely US-Western-centric (mostly because the authors of these sites tend to be American and thus have their own set of American biases) - claiming that America is somehow the paragon of journalistic freedoms and free speech is, in itself, an American bias. CBC, which hasn’t failed a fact check, is only a “high” on the factual reporting scale, for example. Meanwhile Reuters, for which I can point to multiple instances where they got key details wrong, gets a “very high” for factual reporting.
Their hostages vs our prisoners (that we hold without trial or accusation)
No bias detected.
Edit: Confirmed that hostage is the terminology used by Hamas to describe their Israeli captives.
“Ezzedeen Al Qassam Brigades Military Wing of Hamas MovementMilitary Information Department”
“Therefore, we declare that any targeting of our defenceless civilians’ homes without prior warnings will be met with the execution of an Israeli civilian hostage in our custody, and this event will be broadcast publicly“
Original comment: Maybe I’m just confused, but doesn’t Hamas themselves use the same terminology?
Hard to say with translations, a lot is up to the translator.
*In response to your edit, I thought you were referring to what does Hamas call their people being held by Israel. What Hamas calls their hostages seems less relevant to me.
The English language version is self published and not translated. Hamas also has a number of members who are fluent English speakers.
Good to know. My main point was that I’m not going to put too much weight in word choice for people for whom English is not a first language.
I’m not saying Hamas is not holding hostages, I’m saying a lot of Israeli prisoners are hostages.
https://www.gov.il/he/Departments/DynamicCollectors/is-db?skip=0 plenty tried and accused.
Which ones are the 150 women and children to be released from Israeli jail?
It’s the set Hamas proposed, 33 are women, the rest are mostly now 16-18 year old dudes.
Which ones are the 150 women children to be released from Israeli jail?
Terrorists have hostages. Countries have political prisoners and prisoners of war.
Hamas has no hostages but POWs then? 🤨
Nope, hostages
And Israel is going to release all of the Palestinian hostage they’re holding? Or just 200?
