There was a fight for them and they’re still British. There was a referendum and the islanders overwhelmingly want to stay British.
The UN asked Great Britain to give the island back to Argentina, but they refused.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
No they didn’t. You have gone from misrepresentation to straight out lying now.
The UK twice offered Argentina to take the matter to the International Court of Justice. Twice Argentina refused and instead STARTED A WAR. Then got is arse kicked and have been bitching about it ever since.
UK twice offered Argentina to take the matter to the International Court of Justice
Still couldn’t find any citiation to your statement, but I did find this …
https://www.ejiltalk.org/why-the-falklands-dispute-will-probably-never-go-to-court/
It is literally in the Wikipedia article you keep linking all over this post.
So I guess that proves you didn’t read your own sources. You just cherry picked and misrepresented sections of it.
I’m not sure that this link really helps your case, given these key points from the description:
The resolution by the British representative, Ambassador Sir Anthony Parsons
demanded an immediate cessation of hostilities between Argentina and the United Kingdom and a complete withdrawal by Argentine forces
Resolution 502 was in the United Kingdom’s favour by giving it the option to invoke Article 51 of the United Nations Charter and to claim the right of self-defence
I’m not sure that this link really helps your case
The parts you quoted were about self-defense and stopping the fighting, not about the ownership of the islands.
I quote it because it also talks about negotiations that should be begun when it comes to the ownership of the islands, in lieu of continuing the fighting.
I’m already on record about stating that the fighting was wrong, though I don’t know how long anyone would expect a nation to wait for a diplomatic solution.
This press release from the UN goes into more detail on the basic structure of what I’m arguing about: https://press.un.org/en/2021/gacol3347.doc.htm
(I really shouldn’t bother with attempting nuanced conversation on the Internet, it never ends well.)
Negotiations are great, but surely you realize that Argentina shouldn’t expect (or want) to gain sovereignty over the Falklands?
but surely you realize that Argentina shouldn’t expect (or want) to gain sovereignty over the Falklands
No, quite the opposite actually. I believe they have more of a claim to the islands than anyone else, via Spain’s ownership of said lands that Argentina inherited when they gained their independence from Spain, as well as the proximity to Argentina, and finally to the fact that Great Britain was speaking with Argentina about turning them over, before the stupid war was started.
Now, having said that, IANAL, so don’t know what the law would say about that. Really don’t think we’ll resolve the issue here on Lemmy.
It also talked about the starting negotiations to discuss the future of the Islands, aka return them (because I doubt they would have gone with a timeshare/co-op plan.
There’s been other UN discussions on the matter as well: https://press.un.org/en/2021/gacol3347.doc.htm
Why return or timeshare/coop, why not sovereignty under British support which is happening right now. And which the people staying there demand.
You keep saying this, I’m starting to question your ability to read or understand english.
That’s what you understood after reading the page you linked?
The UN asked Great Britain to give the island back to Argentina, but they refused.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
That’s what you understood after reading the page you linked?
I should have been more precise in my language, and that say that the UN wanted them to negotiate a peaceful end to the war and ownership, but generally speaking, yes, based on follow up votes/press releases that the UN made on the subject (like this one).
‘Get them back’. What does ‘back’ even mean in this statement? Of all the countries that have ever legitimately ruled the Falklands, Argentina was never one of them.
The penguins have a better claim to the Falklands than Argentina…
#FalklandPenguinRule2024
#PenguinEmpireRising
For The Emperor!
Penguin
You called?
deleted by creator
I agree it’s more British than Argentinian. But “Argentina never one of the rulers” isn’t quite right. There were several stints of Argentinan (or Spanish but back when that was the same thing) occupation long before the war.
Yeah, Spanish. That’s the point. There were penguins, then was French, it was Spanish, it was British. It was never Argentinian. There were never civilians there.
The only civilians who have lived there are the Falkland Islanders, who identify as British. Argentina’s claim is based on the Spanish once having a very limited military presence there, on which basis they want to assert some sort of imperialist sovereignty over a bunch of civilians whose ancestors have been there for hundreds of years and who have only ever considered themselves British.
There were penguins, then was French, it was Spanish, it was British. It was never Argentinian.
They inherited the islands from Spain (as per their claim) when they won their independence from Spain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
Those islands are allot closer to Argentina than Great Britain, and closer to Argentina than Hawaii is from the US.
That would give Spain a claim on them then, not the country that exists because it said it was not Spain.
You keep posting this link like it somehow supports your political view. Have you even read it?
Because spoiler alert, apart from stating the obvious , that Argentina disputes British sovereignty, it doesn’t support Argentina’s claim.
Have you even read it?
Honestly, you think I would go through all of this if I had not read it? No reason to be a jerk about this.
If you have read it you have not understood it.
If you have read it you have not understood it.
/sigh
If nothing else, you can see that I’ve been arguing from a position of some knowledge on the matter, bring up coherent facts to bolster my opinions.
You may not agree with my conclusions, but it doesn’t mean that I haven’t read what I’ve been citing as part of my argument in this discussion.
So please, stop attacking my intelligence. It doesn’t make for a good discussion, and makes Lemmy more toxic.
dude, you are a rabid nationalist, and it’s affecting your perception of reality.
you’re posting the same comment again and again, which doesn’t even support your case, and totally missing the points that everyone else is talking about.
go for a long walk in fresh air, and maybe consider that your hurt feelings about what flags fly where don’t outweigh the virtually unanimous decision of the people who have actually lived on the islands for generations.
dude, you are a rabid nationalist, and it’s affecting your perception of reality.
You know nothing about me, and are determined to ‘Kill the Messenger’. If you still feel the need to be rude, carry on, Internet Warrior.
If nothing else, you can see that I’ve been arguing from a position of some knowledge on the matter, bring up coherent facts to bolster my opinions.
Hahahahaha
If nothing else, you can see that I’ve been arguing from a position of some knowledge on the matter, bring up coherent facts to bolster my opinions.
Hahahahaha
Noticed you didn’t quote my next sentence…
You may not agree with my conclusions, but it doesn’t mean that I haven’t read what I’ve been citing as part of my argument in this discussion.
If that’s the best you got in way of debating, then that doesn’t bode well for Lemmy going forward.
Because “getting them back” worked so well for the (not for long) ruling regime of Argentina last time around. Lol.
Just for who didn’t know the story: in order to distract the population from a 120% inflation, the ruling far right dictator decided to take back the islands, (sounds similar?) thinking that the us would support them and that the UK wouldn’t fight back.
Anyway the UK is very far and it would take months to send reinforcements, right? And the US loves us, just because we’re not communists like other neighbors. We gonna just take them back with a special military operation, no war declaration needed.
While for a short time it worked as the local media was ecstatic about getting back the Malvinas islands and didn’t talk anymore about the rampant inflation, it eventually backfired spectacularly and the fascist regime was overturned.
That government was put in power after a US-backed coup overthrew the democratically-elected Isabel Perón. Henry Kissinger was instrumental in orchestrating the coup.
Kissinger has done a supernatural amount of damage to the world.
He is truly an evil motherfucker. Every once in a while I still come across some fresh new horror he was involved in.
I thought Isabel Peron was just in the line of succession when Juan Peron died, and was herself prone to pursue anti-leftist policies?
Lol I was wondering just yesterday how long it would take this guy to bring up the Falklands after getting elected.
Normally right-wingers in the UK would be pleased to see someone like him elected, but because of the Argentina-Falklands connection, they’re going to hate him lmao
I mean the Falklands war did Thatcher no harm.
I think they’re going to love him.
If I remember it correctly the whole Falklands affair worked wonders for Thatcher’s popularity.
Mind you, these types have been gutting everything in Britain including the military, so who knows what the outcome would be in a Falklands War v2.
Argentina has esentially no navy to speak of, and what it can field would be conpletely smashed by the typhoons stationed on the islands.
Milei is a lot less focused on the Falklands than the presidents before him. Every Argentinian politician says “we have to get the Falklands back”. It’s literally in their constitution. Milei says that Thatcher legit kicked their asses and they should try diplomatic means, and maybe try not having 140% inflation so that the islanders would be less opposed to becoming Argentinian.
Are we just doing out of order reruns of the 20th century?
Oh God. Pls no. 🇩🇪
Are we just doing out of order reruns of the 20th century?
When it comes to humans, it’s been my experience that if you don’t resolve issues they come back to bite you in the ass, at some point.
On a differrent note: What would anybody want of the Falkland Islands? I mean, it is a lousy island with 3000 inhabitants and half a million sheep, and they live of fishing, wool, and day tourism from cruise ships.
On the one hand, maintaining a military presence equivalent to more than half the number of native inhabitants costs the British a shitload of money. On the other hand, starting another bloody war with the UK in the middle of an economic catastrophe over a piece of rock with sheep does not make any sense for Argentina, either.
On a differrent note: What would anybody want of the Falkland Islands?
Oil in the nearby ocean ownership is the reason why.
Its the way international treaties work as far as claiming ownership of resources in the ocean.
It’s about the territorial waters that come with them
Falklands nascent oil industry + giving the population a rallying cry to distract from poor economic conditions.
OK, oil could be an incentive, but I doubt that it is much or one would have heard of them.
I should have excluded pure rhetorics as a reason. The Chinese at least had a good economic reason to get Hong Kong into their hands.
OK, oil could be an incentive, but I doubt that it is much or one would have heard of them.
Don’t mean to be rude, but you could also just not have been educated on the matter, and its actually more important than you think, especially to those who claim ownership for the oil rights reasons.
Usually world politics, when it comes to oil access/ownership, is not something that is discussed in the open, often. We in the US never say that we do stuff in the Middle East for the oil, we say its for a hunder other reasons, but its first and foremost its for the oil, not that news stations will ever report on that fact.
OK, looks like there is actually serious amounts of oil there. But quite deep and under water. Still, worth more than all of the island wrapped up as a present ;-) TIL.
Its really crazy how that stuff works. I read an article once about how nations try to claim even the smallest piece of rock in places just so that they can have claim over the resources not on land itself but in the ocean around it. Has to do with some UN treaties/rules about resource availability/ownership.
We in the US never say that we do stuff in the Middle East for the oil, we say its for a hunder other reasons, but its first and foremost its for the oil, not that new stations will ever report on that fact.
Oh everybody knows that
Oh everybody knows that
But they never say it in public, if they can help it.
We in the US never say that we do stuff in the Middle East for the oil, we say its for a hunder other reasons, but its first and foremost its for the oil,
While a common conspiracy theory, this is never borne out by evidence.
We in the US never say that we do stuff in the Middle East for the oil, we say its for a hunder other reasons, but its first and foremost its for the oil,
While a common conspiracy theory, this is never borne out by evidence
It’s actually been stated officially during reporter questioning actually, multiple times throughout the years. It’s just not something you see discussed much on CNN directly.
Don’t mean to be rude (in case you’re not a bot) but it takes a special kind of ignorance to believe that oil has nothing to do with what’s going on in the Middle East. It’s not the only factor, but it’s definitely a factor.
Oil dictates our relationship with Saudi Arabia, but is not tied to overall ME policy, and there is 0 evidence to the contrary.
Not only am I not a bot, im old enough to remember “no blood for oil” protests and how dumb and distracting they were from legitimate reasons not to engage in ME war.
Your conspiracy theory has gotten people killed
and there is 0 evidence to the contrary.
As I’ve mentioned previously, during official news conferences officials have stated the need to protect the oil supply and the access to it.
Not only am I not a bot, im old enough to remember “no blood for oil” protests and how dumb and distracting they were from legitimate reasons not to engage in ME war.
As someone who is also old enough to remember those kind of protests, and the embargos, etc., I agree. Fighting over resources is not healthy, and that resources should be shared instead.
Your conspiracy theory has gotten people killed
Its not a conspiracy theory, its what drives the politics in the ME, on multiple levels. And its not my theory, its what the majority of people have decided on (the importance of oil).
Nationalist Kvetch entirely, those are Brits on the island, not just British citizens, full on ethnically British Islanders who’ve lived there almost since anyone knew the islands were there to begin with.
When polled they overwhelmingly voted in favor of remaining with the UK
Falklands are as British as black pudding and the royal corgis. Argentina just keeps pressing the claim because it makes a good nationalist distraction whenever right wing nutcases inevitably prove to be completely incompetent.
Also, any attempt to link it with some overarching notion of decolonization is complete bunk, the islands were uninhabited before they were discovered it’s only colonialism if you think the very concept of an exclave is colonialist because that’s in effect what they are, a very far removed exclave.
those are Brits on the island, not just British citizens, full on ethnically British Islanders
Why are you mentioning this? Does that mean they’re worth saving more than a citizen who isn’t “ethnically British”?
What is that anyway? The UK is a collection of countries: England, Scotland, etc. Is there a hierarchy of British ethnicities in your mind? You implied that there is some separation between certain groups, so you must have thought about it. Right?
They were very very clearly mentioning it to show that Argentina has no legitimate claim or argument using any traditional reasoning. You had to work very hard to purposefully misinterpret that statement. Pathetically so.
I was pointing out that they aren’t an indigenous people under British colonial rule, they are themselves Brits who identify solidly with Britain.
On a differrent note: What would anybody want of the Falkland Islands? I mean, it is a lousy island with 3000 inhabitants and half a million sheep
So it’s a Scotland in the southern hemisphere.
Bagpipes, anyone?
Someone jam some oats in a sheep’s stomach. I’m fucking starving.
He has said he wants a diplomatic solution similar to the one that Britain reached with China over Hong Kong.
Wonderful example. What happened to Hong Kong is something that no place in the world really wants to experience.
Yeah the reason HK went the way it did was because China could credibly say “Give it to us or we take it”. Argentina already tried the take it by force way, when their military was in a much better state than it is now, and there was effectively no military garrison on the islands. Argentina have pretty much zero leverage here.
last I heard, the people on falkland don’t want to be argentinian either.
Which should be the biggest, and loudest, reason to oppose Argentinian demands for the island.
Majority of people in Hong Kong at the time didn’t want to be part of China either, a lot of them left China already for a reason.
Okay?
Hong Kong was a completely different situation as the British signed a specific lease for Hong Kong with a set end date that was known all along. Nothing like that happened with the Falklands.
That’s a common misconception, the 99 year lease was on the New Territories, rural areas in the north of HK. Hong Kong Island and Kowloon (the heavily urban bits you think of when you think Hong Kong) were under no such lease, they had been permanently ceded to Britain when it was just a fishing village on the coast.
deleted by creator
I fear he was looking at it from China’s side.
Being effectively conquered twice before being made to scede some of their land for a century while a foreign power floods the country with drugs?
I think he meant lying when signing the handover treaty and not giving Hong Kongers the rights they agreed to for the time they agreed to.
Exactly this. Otherwise, nobody should expect me to defend the British Empire of all things.
For all the bad things they did, at least they left HK as a democracy including some freedom of the press and expression.
Well, if another curbstomping by Britain is what it takes to run this addle-brained right wing moron out of office in short order, then perhaps that’s a silver lining.
Argentina: we will retake Las Malvinas!
Royal Navy: Oh really? Try it. We’d really like a chance to demonstrate the combat effectiveness of our QE2 Class Carriers. And Bob here hasn’t shot his destroyer’s deck guns since '82 and he’s bored!
RAF: (Rapidly dusting off the Vulcans and Nimrods)
Royal Marines: (Lights up a Benson & Hedges cigarette)… Right… (Slaps knees and stands up)… Grab yer Bergens and Bayonets lads!
I really hope Argentina doesn’t hand the UK’s faltering Conservative government a nice patriotic war just before the next election. If they hadn’t done that in 1982 we might have seen the back of Thatcher before the worst damage was done.
I mean, the Brits might be chomping at the bit for it. I mean with Brexit and all, I’m pretty sure it’s been greyer than usual in the UK. Nothing like completely mopping up some country trying to invade your land to put on a slightly brighter disposition.
That said, I think Milei has mostly been talking about attempting to get them back diplomatically. Which I’m highly doubtful anyone remotely responsible for making that kind of decision in the UK is vaguely affable towards entertaining. Just a hunch.
our QE2 Class Carriers
Plural? Huh, TIL they’ve got more than one of them.
(I always found it kind of crazy and hilarious that the US has like 10 CATOBAR nuclear-powered carriers and then also a bunch of STOVL diesel-powered ones that we don’t even bother counting as “carriers,” when every other country has maybe one or a few at best, and most of those are STOVL or worse. I guess the last time I counted was before 2017, though.)
During world War II, the United States had over 150 aircraft carriers which would be the equivalent of a wasp class amphibious assault ship/helicopter carrier.
Soooo trouble in Middle East is back from standby and Argentina is making demands about the Falklands. How about we just stop there and let other famous Conflicts in pease. * sweats in german *
Sorgerechtsverhandlung für Elsass Lothringen 2024?
Nee danke. Ich bin mit den Besuchsrecht zufrieden
Uh, last I checked, Britannia rules the waves, not the Falklands. Checkmate, Margaret.
This happens every couple of years, as a populist move in Argentina to avoid tackling the real issues.
The UK will have a nice chuckle, will make some empty threats about protecting its people if needed, and we’ll all move on.
What worries me is that this seems to improve the opinion of those in power, and last time the Falklands came up Theresa May loved every second of it because she could act out her Thatcher cosplay fantasies.
I miss the images of her wearing the same goddamn outfits as Thatcher. Shit was surreal.
Yeah, Argentina is about to explode into civil war. That place is going to be real dangerous in the next few months.
Oh so THIS is how ww3 starts
I wouldn’t call the Falkland Islands War 2: Electric Boogaloo “WW3”. More like a police action, to be honest. The Argentine Navy and Air Force these days is frankly laughable in comparison to their military strength before the first FI war, let alone the strength of the RN and RAF today.
Who knows, maybe some friends will lend a nuke or two
Not gonna happen
It’d be kinda funny if Putin gave them a “nuke” only for it to be a dud because of lack of maintenance
Why on earth would nukes be given over some islands with a population of only a few thousand?
It’s a question of principle
No, it’s just nonsense.
Argentina wouldn’t last a day against a modern military.
They’d last a day against the Royal Navy because it would take longer than a day to get there.
There are 1500 troops stationed in the Falklands and a sizable force at Royal Air Force Station Ascension.
Oh, I’d expect a British ship or two to hang out very near the Falklands for as long as he’s in power.
At the moment the patrol is a single River class whose largest armament is a 30mm cannon. In the past there tended to be either a frigate or a destroyer in the area, but while the Argentine navy is much diminished they can probably overpower or outmanoeuvre that defence.
deleted by creator
“Now we have to see how we are going to get them back. It is clear that the war option is not a solution.”
If more people actually read instead of knee-jerk reacting to click-bait headlines they might have a better understanding of what is going on around them.
British people lose all sense of logic anytime falklands get mentioned.
They need them for strategic sheep reserves
Yeah, since New Zeeland became an indepent nation there really hasn’t been any proper fallback if anything happens to Wales…
That’s the pot calling the kettle black. Last time I checked the Argentine government is 1-0 for starting wars over the Falklands and 0-1 for winning one.
Not really, I spend time in English and argentinian communities and I see more British nationalists going apeshit anytime the subject gets brought up, i mean, look at your comment. They also project wild opinions and have baseless assumptions on the general argentian populations opinion on the war. Its kinda nuts. Argentinians have really negative feelings as it relates to their country any time the topic gets brought up and don’t really think about the falklands the same way British nationalists think they do.
So do I once again need to point out the obvious.
Argentina started a war over an island that contained British nationals and has never been populated by anything other than British nationals.
Argentina continually refused to have the case of sovereignty heard by the International Court of Justice. Despite the UK offering twice.
And this thread is still full of Argentinian supporters sprouting bullshit factually inaccurate claims.
But yes it is the British who are unreasonable in this instance. 🙄
And this thread is still full of Argentinian supporters sprouting bullshit factually inaccurate claims.
I’ll take back what I said if you can link me three of these comments that this thread is full of.
Gotta hang on to colonialism because: English.
There was nobody living there before the British arrived, but after the British arrived British people moved there. It seems to me that the only country with a good claim, is Britain
Actually the first colonists were French. The claim was transferred to Spain via a pact between the Bourbon kings of both countries. The Spanish name for The Falklands derives from the French, Îles Malouines, named after Saint-Malo/Sant-Maloù.
The Argentinians only ever occupied the islands for six months, for a penal colony - which ended via mutiny, not military expulsion. They’ve otherwise been under continuous British occupation since 1833, barring the 1982 war.
I’m English, and by no means pro-English colonialism, but the Argentine claim is spurious nonsense.
According to Wikipedia, The French and English colonized two separate islands within months of each other, though the French are credited with being there first. Historians apparently disagree on whether or not the two settlements knew the other was there for the first year.
The English have the longest claim that was never relinquished, since the French gave their settlement to Spain years after the French and English set up the original two colonies.
Why do you keep posting this link? It’s not convincing anybody of the validity of an Argentine claim, it’s presumptuous of you to assume people haven’t read it, and it doesn’t back up a number statements you’ve made (“The UN asked Great Britain to give the island back to Argentina, but they refused.” for instance).
Why do you keep posting this link?
Because most people are just saying stuff that is not true, which the link corrects.
It’s not convincing anybody of the validity of an Argentine claim
If you read their comments that I reply to with that link, the facts documented contradicts what they are saying, and hence, may convince people of the validity of the claim.
it’s presumptuous of you to assume people haven’t read it
Not if I see people getting facts wrong its not.
There was nobody living there before the British arrived
That’s not true.
Why does this falsehood keep getting repeated over and over?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
Not true, it was sparcely populated and in 1831 an American warship raided the area dissolved the government and rolled back out. 1833 the English come back and claimed the island and the dispute keeps on.
The government, was literally 1 German man who the argentines said “yeah your the government now go live there”
The government, was literally 1 German man who the argentines said “yeah your the government now go live there”
There’s another rock sticking out of the ocean further south that Great Britain claims ownership over, and its just got a plaque on it to state ownership, no people live there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
That’s a population, though sparce.
It’s a singular person, that doesn’t give them much of a claim
Yeah because it would be such a great Idea just to straight up say :“I’m going to attack you. But please don’t prepare or anything. Just act surprise.”
