Things have gotten better and progress has been made from times past, it just seems worse now because we have more access to information. We’ve come far, and have further to go!
The poverty rate stuff is pure bs. The world bank just lowered the stated official poverty line without actually improving living conditions.
https://www.jasonhickel.org/blog/2019/2/3/pinker-and-global-poverty
As well as the average life span being skewed by those same infant mortality rates. People have been living long and now they’re forced to retire later.
Plus, while we have extended life, we haven’t made progress with extended life care. So you might live 20 years longer, but those 20 years will be spent in your bed waiting for your nurse to clean your diaper.
besides this, China did a huge job on getting people out of poverty - if you like or not
Mass producing shit at inhuman factories with deaths by the millions. I guess you’re not poor if you’re just dead.
Technically correct. A dead person is neither rich nor poor.
So that’s what happened to the middle class.
The best kind of correct
Look at the statistics. I am not lying. You can complain, but that are facts.
What statistics? The one the CCP made up? Over a quarter of chinese are still in extreme poverty and a huge amount of chinese still have an income of under 1500 yuan a month.
Sure, they might have lifted some people out of poverty, but they also put them into poverty in the first place under mao. So celebrating this is kind of self congratulatory.deleted by creator
You can google it. It takes just a few seconds. I think you can handle it… If I search it for you, you wouldn’t believe it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/56213271.amp
I did. It’s state propaganda.
By that definition france lifted millions of people out of poverty.LOL!
“Elsewhere in the region, Vietnam has also seen a dramatic fall in extreme poverty rates over a similar period. Another large country, India, had 22% of its population living below the international poverty line in 2011 (the most recent data available). Brazil has 4.4% of its people earning less than $1.90 a day.”
How many people has the US lifted out of poverty? How many people has Britain lifted out of poverty? How many has any state in the EU lifted out of poverty? And france isn’t even mentioned in the article. Vietnam is btw. socialistic.
If you look at the history of western countries industrializing it didn’t look much better.
Life expectancy has also gone up. You’re lying through your fucking teeth.
Why wouldn’t people like it?
because they hate china…
Maybe I’m too naive, but even if you hate a country for its economic and political choices, you can still be glad their working class population is getting out of poverty and It’s not like they are getting richer by slaving a whole continent
Yeah… you can like some things and still hate everything else about it. Not everything is black or white - but some don’t like grey-scales.
What? How did china get people out of poverty?
Edit: They didnt. After a long journey we found out that china is boasting about how all chinese citizens are now above 1 dollar a day aka. EXTREME poverty(in 2011) Aparrently this is an achievement and not incredibly sad.
Also Guildo is a CCP Shill.
The Great Leap Forward. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward
It was a massive effort to industrialize China under Mao, and resulted in the largest famine in human history with tens of millions dead.
I guess that’s one way to stop poverty
Not what Guildo guy was going for but yes, horrible thing and that did improve ehm… statistics.
Oh I bet it was and they’ll just ignore the great famine as being some natural thing that just happened and wasn’t due to the policies of the CCP.
That’s how everyone I’ve met that has talked about the CCP raising people from poverty have posed it.
CCP shills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China I am also pretty sure, that the great leap forward was under Mao and not Deng Xiaoping, but who knows? I am just a CCP-Bot. Beep Boop Boop. Wikipedia is also under the control of China. Beep Boop Boop. Winnie Pooh Xi Jinping Beep Boop Boop
" For example, the World Bank draws a higher poverty line for upper-middle-income countries, which tries to reflect economic conditions. It sets this at $5.50 a day. China is now an upper-middle-income country, says the bank.
About a quarter of China’s population is in poverty, according to this metric. For comparison, this is slightly higher than Brazil.
And there is widespread income inequality. Last year, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said China still had 600 million people whose monthly income was barely 1,000 yuan ($154). He said that was not enough to rent a room in a city.
The great leap forward is the reason so many people from extreme poverty died and reversing those changes is not liftig people out of poverty but reversing changes that put people in extreme poverty.".
Yes, by 1980 third world country standards china has a 0.7 percent poverty rate. Thats ignoring 40 years of development of the rest of the world. And also that china is not a third world country anymore.
Go move into a Tofu Dreg Highrise and tell me how good it looks from up there.
You’re talking all the time like China is still a third world country. You have to decide.
Yeah, because they finally decided to adopt a free market model, and suddenly “starving people in China” was less of a thing.
idiot
Said the CCP Boot
I think you wrote Bot wrong… But who knows? I am just a Bot. Beep Boop Boop. I am a Bot.
No i meant Boot. As in Bootlicker.
Oh, sure you’re not a Bot? Also I am not licking any boots.
“You literally have two nickels to rub together. You’re fine.”
It holds true no matter what poverty line you choose.
Living conditions of the so called poor today is much better than living conditions of kings just a couple of centuries ago.
lol guess it’s possible to believe anything
These are the facts. You don’t have to believe them, they just are.
That’s right. Kings were famous for being malnourished, starving, homeless or forced to do child labour in toxic rare earth mineral mines. /s
the last two are easily debunked. I hate shit like this because it reinforces an idea that time = progress. There are influential and powerful people alive today who would reverse any of these trends if it meant money in their pocket.
It’s bewildering why they decided to restate the 1st point as the 3rd point when they could’ve just said the average retirement age is 10 years lower than it was 100 years ago https://www.statista.com/statistics/319983/average-retirement-age-in-the-us/
I don’t get why they are comparing things to the depression rather than after ww2. 50 years would be a better measure. Also retirement wise people can’t always choose to so income and home ownership in retirment would be more practical.
Yeah thought it didn’t sound right.
How is the last one debunked?
Jesus Christ this thread. The technicalities aren’t the point. You are allowed to find happiness where you can in an imperfect world that contains suffering. It doesn’t mean you’ll be complacent to injustice. Fighting against injustice can be done without thinking the world is hopeless dogshit. There’s satisfaction that can be justifiably had, through means other than smug superiority at knowing all the depressing truths of the world, or the sympathy of others for your problems. We feed ourselves so much rage and sadness via the internet, can we not have a palate-cleanser like this without chewing it up and spitting it out, and then going back to gorging on more?
The thingeis: the world is getting less free and inequality has been constantly rising in the last decades.
This Steven Pinker BS is advertising complacency, while we should agitate people to fight for a better world.
If you want to be optimistic, look around for the average kindness of everyday live inside communities. The FOSS community, unions, mutual aid in neighborhoods etc. This would lift you up and point in the direction where things could get better.
Permanent revolution!!!
Another Lemmy commie.
Not what I said and not really accurate, but if you think so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well said!
Hey OP, this is a book about just that: https://www.amazon.com/Factfulness-Reasons-World-Things-Better/dp/1250107814
This is a website that goes along with it and has updated stats: https://www.gapminder.org/factfulness-book/32-improvements/
Basically everything is getting better, despite public opinion to the contrary. The one thing (as this thread is harping on) is climate change, and ya, that’s big, but it is good to acknowledge that most other things are changing for the better in most ways.
In the US every single one of those indicators is going the other way. It’s only by looking globally that you can say that.
Well fuck the rest of the world, amirite? U S A! U S A! U S A!
US income inequality plummeted under Roosevelt (inequality coefficient: 0.59 - 0.47) and began its steady climb under Regan. It leveled out in 2012 under Obama (0.58) and had a slight dip (0.58 - 0.57 - 0.58) in 2020 under Trump. We’re almost back to where we started when Roosevelt took measures to help. The USA has, however consistently been well below the world average for income inequality (0.71- 0.66). https://ourworldindata.org/economic-inequality
Infant/Child mortality rate hasn’t raised anywhere since 1960 and is lower everywhere than it was in 1950, and yes the USA is still winning:
https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality
Extreme poverty is trending downward faster in the US than the world average:
https://ourworldindata.org/poverty
Thank you for this research, it gives great perspective.
The wealth gap between the US and citizens of dirt-poor nations is insane. People live on less in a day than I make in a few minutes. I don’t mind losing a little to help bring others up, and, since it’s not zero-sum, it ends up being a larger plus overall than the minus for us.
If that’s where it was going I wouldn’t mind but researchers have tracked the missing wages and extra profits to the 1 percent.
When you think about what people live on in other countries you also have to think about what things cost around them. An apple, for example, is far cheaper for them to buy. That said there are still people in poverty even with that in mind and they should be helped. But that’s not what’s causing the inequality gap in western countries and it’s far overblown as an argument to make Westerners ashamed to complain while they are exploited by the extremely wealthy.
The gap isn’t necessarily bad. It’s the things that cause it (and that the rising tide isn’t lifting all boats) that’s the problem.
This gap very much is. It’s way too much for any sustainable society.
Be happy the silent generation won some serious gains that the boomers, X, and millennials are steadily eroding for profit?
No thanks. That’s called complacency.
Classic SMBC
While “technically” true. We all know the average lifespan was brought down by a high infant mortality. So comparingbthat to when peopke retired is meaningless. That said, it dies seem worse because with more information we realize how much better it could be. 100 years ago, the average american had no idea how common slums were outside the US. And those that knew considered those slum people less than human. So what we have really done is expanded who is considered human, and who matters. That certainly does make it look worse.
Yeah, mean lifespan is meaningless if the distribution is bimodal. Median would be a more useful average.
Also, significantly less dead babies increasing average lifespan is a very happy way to boost that number
*fewer dead babies
The less/fewer distinction is arbitrary Victorian bullshit flying directly in the face of how English is used. The only point of it was to try and make English more like Latin and allow aristocrats who spoke Latin to look down on those without expensive private education.
Please dont perpetuate it.
There’s no need to make shit up.
I do beg your pardon, it was Georgian not Victorian era when this nonsense was dreamed up for no reason other than preference for trying to cram Latin-esque cases into english.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-genuine-rule-dictates-the-use-of-less-or-fewer-cs25kv8s5
The very notion of a neat distinction between fewer and less according to whether the noun is countable or not is a myth. It was invented out of whole cloth by an ill- informed 18th-century pedant called Robert Baker in his book Reflections on the English Language (1770). He proposed this distinction not as a hard-and-fast rule of grammar, moreover, but as a tentative suggestion with caveats (“I should think . . . it appears to me . . . ”) that you won’t find in modern style guides.
The wiki article on it notes that
The Cambridge Guide to English Usage notes that the “pressure to substitute fewer for less seems to have developed out of all proportion to the ambiguity it may provide in noun phrases like less promising results”. It describes conformance with this pressure as a shibboleth and the choice “between the more formal fewer and the more spontaneous less” as a stylistic choice.
i.e. it is a shibboleth for saying “I am educated unlike you uncultured lot who use natural sounding language”
Yeah, people who learn and understand language are the worst
You cant say “the worst” when talking about an uncountable group, you have to say “the least good” because I prefer that and it makes me sound smart by correcting you. Apparently that is sufficient for it to be understanding language and for you to be wrong.
I think we can all agree to that.
100 years ago, the average american had no idea how common slums were outside the US.
This was and still is very true. The level of the poverty in places like that is astounding and beyond the experience of most anyone in a 1st world country. I grew up in America, in poverty of the level that my single mother was only eating what she could scrounge at work some years so she’d have enough to feed us kids. Yet when I deployed to Panama in the mid 90’s for a 2 month military operation, and had to operate in many of the rural areas of Panama during those missions, I had my eyes opened to what real 3rd world poverty looks like. The way I grew up would have been a huge improvement for many of the people I saw there. You can’t really understand it until you’ve seen it with your own eyes.
Every one of which we are backsliding on. We should be alarmed.
This meme effectively expired in 2019. COVID reversed out the direction on all of it. About the only thing we haven’t stopped backsliding on is “shareholder value”.
The average American didn’t die at age 51. And, while the average life expectancy might have been 51 years, that’s a Spiders Georg moment.
The life expectancy was thrown off by all the child mortality. If you lived past 10 years, you were likely to live to 70.
Yep, and now there’s not a deluge of dead children dragging the average down, which is objectively pretty great
Correct; “average” and average can be different things.
Yeah, in particular the “average age of death” might be 51 if the average includes a lot of people who died as children. OTOH, the average person dying at 51 is fundamentally different in how you think of it.
Life expectancy at, is used by academics when relevant. Average at birth, adulthood and even once they’re over the hill have utility. Like identifying outliers.
Regardless, the average person is going to use average as a nebulas concept occasionally informed by science but hearsay and superstition on an average day.
*nebulous
If you like this post maybe read The Progress Paradox. It goes in much more detail than this meme, it then poses the question but then why aren’t we happy. Without giving answers it does point to possible paths. It’s a good book.
The environmental problems are critical, though. And it’s what ultimately will decide the fate of our species. There is room for optimism in some aspects of our society, but that is not an indication that in the end everything will be alright.
More of this is needed.
Just about time to retire this meme format, I think.
Possibly, but in this case it doesn’t really work because the format doesn’t fit the meme.
Ayy, meaningless feel-good bullshit! Yep, everything’s hunky dory.
You know what? I did like this post, thanks.
I don’t really care about any of that. All that matters is that I’m constantly having to fight to keep wfh, it’s impossible to get health issues diagnosed and I just keep wasting hundreds of dollars on trying, I’ve resigned myself to staying untreated for adhd and whatever else, I am sick of having to work a job where I need to interact with people, and all the foods I enjoy the most make me incredibly sick and I’m sure are gonna kill me one day. If I had a choice I wouldn’t have been born. I am very lucky, I have no money problems, didn’t have to buy my house, have a good long term stable relationship, not having to deal with having had kids, quiet neighborhood with no crime… but things should be a lot better than this. People can shove their head in the sand and pretend things are not going to end very badly for humankind and I personally don’t care. I live my life and enjoy what I like and either I’ll be dead or will witness the glorious end of humanity. I just hope my AC keeps up with climate change lol!
Lmao.
ACs are the most selfish pieces of technology, change my mind
