I mean with things like sex trafficking, labor trafficking, etc. IMO it should be called slavery, and those affected need to be rescued from slavery.
A pimp enslaves people
The Tate Brothers (allegedly) enslaved people.
IMO, referring to sex/labor trafficking to slavery will show it just how evil it actually is.
Not really, words have meaning
human trafficking: noun
A criminal activity in which people are recruited, harboured, transported, bought, or kidnapped to serve an exploitative purpose, such as sexual slavery, forced labor, or child soldiery.
slavery: noun
- The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner’s control, especially in involuntary servitude.
- The practice of owning slaves.
- A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
If you want a concrete example of the difference, let’s say I kidnap someone and keep them as a slave. That’s simply me enslaving someone.
Now let’s say I kidnap someone and sell them to someone else who keeps them as a slave. What have I done? I’ve trafficked a human.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
The name for an entire epoch of history contradicts your claim.
It ain’t trafficking if it’s legal.
Oddly I think it’s still trafficking even that era, it was the humanity that they attempted to deny.
Trying to compare forced-labor and human trafficking to chattel slavery obscures and excuses the institution of slavery in the Americas.
Slavery apologists use these arguments. “Slavery is no worse than prison.” “Slavery still happens, and to white people”.
Their are some key differences, I’ll point out three.
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no matter how depraved and cruel the conditions of a trafficked person are, they don’t expect the same fate to befall their children and grandchildren.
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Human trafficking is illegal and rather looked-down-upon. Chattel slavery was considered normal, routine, necessary, and good throughout the society where it occurred.
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Human trafficking victims are legally people with rights recognized by the legal system; their abusers must hide their activities and fear punishment.
No one is comparing it to chattel slavery though. Chattel slavery isn’t the only kind of slavery. Slavery is slavery, chattel or otherwise. Chattel slavery is slavery, human trafficking is slavery.
Slavery as a spectrum is a very odd argument to have.
But im pretty sure slavery has been around since shortly after opposable thumbs.
Tribes/raiders fought and took slaves/hostages/wives.
Intercontinental shipping was a new addition.
As for the generational fate of slaves … the Old Testament of the Bible has some talk of that.
American slavery was dehumanizing and violent. Most slavery would seem to be.
Spectrum wise? Not sure where it falls in the all time world wide list.
E.g. Rome probably better for slaves, Belgian Congo certainly worse.
American slavery was exceptionally evil as far as forms of slavery go. There are other ways to enslave a person without legally owning their body. The modern form of legal American slavery, forced work through incarceration, is objectively still slavery, and slightly less evil than the chattel slavery of the past.
All slavery is inexcusable. All slavery is evil. Not all slavery is chattel slavery.
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The most egregious use of this is for entities people otherwise have some respect for. People bristle when I mention that California sends slaves to fight its forest fires.
Historians today have no problem recognizing slavery in historical cultures. They’ll have no problem stating that ancient cultures practiced slavery as a form of punishment, where you could be sentenced to slavery for a crime. But that never transfers to the present day. People get rather offended if you say California uses slave labor. They prefer terms like involuntary or forced labor.
But make no mistake, California sends slaves to fight forest fires.
Tell me more about this, please. Does California use prisoners or is it something else?
Yes. California uses involuntary prison labor to fight forest fires.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/la-wildfires-prisoner-firefighter-program-criticism-rcna187436
We call it involuntary prison labor. But if we are talking about one of the countless ancient societies that used to punish people with involuntary labor, we have no problem calling those people slaves. Rome sentenced thousands of people to slavery in its various mines, and we refer to that as slavery.
We have no problem recognizing slavery in ancient cultures. But when it comes to our society, we find all sorts of euphemisms to avoid using the word “slave.”
Holy crap. That’s so gross to think about.
I would understand if the government asked “Who is able and willing to learn and help,” but to force anyone to fight A WILDFIRE? That’s just sending people to horrible death sentence especially if barely trained.
It reminds me of Putin conscription prisoners to fight in Ukraine, only instead of killing others the government is putting you and your fellow untrained buddies on the line
I mean, to be fair, we’re not actually talking the ancient Roman mines here. Those people had incredibly short life expectancies. It’s hard grueling and dangerous work, but it’s not like California is seeing scores of prisoners incinerated either. I certainly haven’t heard of any mass fatalities among these enslaved firefighters.
Human trafficking is the trading of slaves. It’s just a subset of what goes on around slavery.
You have to remember, in the US slavery isn’t really illegal, it’s just illegal to do privately. The state can, and does, still sentence people to slave labor. So the reason they refer to trafficking is that it’s the illegal part of the slavery.
Human trafficking is the trading of slaves
Then why aren’t we calling it slave trading?
What do you call transporting groups of people for money, when the only restraint is that the state doesn’t want those people where you are taking them?
What do you call transporting groups of people for money
Against their will or not?
Both
Not both. There is a massive moral difference between these two cases.
Legal and moral only rarely overlap, and usually by accident.
Legal and moral only rarely overlap
To the contrary. Most of legal framework is built on top of moral one
Slave trading at that point.
“A pimp enslaves people”
I’m not so sure that is always the case. A sex worker can find someone who ensures their safety and pay them to do so. They could also help find clients for them. At no point does the definition of pimp require the person to force the sex worker to do anything.
I guess I got A Pimp Named Slickback in my mind where he hits the women and treats them as objects, “What woman sir, this here’s a ho”
I’m all the protection of sex workers, as long as they have total freedom from such things. If a pimp is providing safety - actual safety, not gang type safety - then I’m all for it.
How did he become a household name lol
Boondocks was an amazing series lolol
Seriously, haven’t watched it in years. Instantly heard him in my head.
A sex worker can find someone who ensures their safety and pay them to do so
That’s not a pimp, that’s a bodyguard.
At no point does the definition of pimp require the person to force the sex worker to do anything.
“Pimp” has specific meaning in the US which criminalizes prostitution:
https://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/sociallaw/student_projects/PimpsandProstitutes.htm
A prostitute is defined as one who exchanges sexual favors for money, drugs, or other desirable commodities, while a pimp is one who controls the actions and lives off the proceeds of one or more prostitutes (Williamson & Cluse-Tolar, 2002; Dalla, 2002). Pimp-controlled prostitution is ubiquitous and the most common form of prostitution in the US by many estimates; the WHISPER organization found 90% of prostituted women they interview are pimp-controlled, Williamson and Cluse-Tolar (2002) estimate that 80% of prostitutes become involved with pimps over time
https://bridgelegal.org/what-is-pimp-legal-definitions-criminal-implications/
In American law, the term pimp refers to individuals who profit from the prostitution of others by coordinating or managing sexual services, often involving coercion, exploitation, or manipulation. Legal definitions vary by state, but common elements include deriving a financial benefit, organizing or controlling a sex worker, and facilitating prostitution.
Common Sex Trafficking Language
Exit Fee — The money a pimp will demand from a victim who is thinking about trying to leave. It will be an exorbitant sum, to discourage her from leaving. Most pimps never let their victims leave freely.
Finesse Pimp/Romeo Pimp — One who prides himself on controlling others primarily through psychological manipulation. Although he may shower his victims with affection and gifts (especially during the recruitment phase), the threat of violence is always present.
Gorilla (or Guerilla) Pimp — A pimp who controls his victims almost entirely through physical violence and force.
“John” (a/k/a Buyer or “Trick”) — An individual who pays for or trades something of value for sexual acts.
Kiddie Stroll – An area known for prostitution that features younger victims.
“Section 1. Antifa as a Terrorist Threat. Antifa is a militarist, anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for the overthrow of the United States Government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law. It uses illegal means to organize and execute a campaign of violence and terrorism nationwide…”
Shit, guess all anti-fascists are terrorists now.
Human trafficking is per definition a form of modern slavery. But also sometimes used as a term to criminalise rescuers who help refugees.
It’s a separate charge, with a distinct meaning, but yes it’s usually used because people are afraid to call it slavery. Human trafficking also includes coyotes (people who clients hire to smuggle them across borders).
The Tates (allegedly but blatantly) trafficked people for the purpose of enslavement.
The more I think about this the more I think we need to bring back calling a slaver a slaver. Not just for the blunt acknowledgement, but also for the distinctions between someone operating an unlicensed brothel where the workers are free to leave vs one where they aren’t, or between a farmer who hires undocumented labor without threatening deportation vs one who will call immigration enforcement when a laborer demands safe working conditions or leaves for a competitor, or between a coyote who leaves you once you’re in and a trafficker who keeps your passport.
Allegedly must be the Tate brothers’ Middle names.
OP needs to keep a dictionary in the shower.
But then it will get wet
IMO, referring to sex/labor trafficking to slavery will show it just how evil it actually is.
The word slave comes from Slavic people being conquered and forced into servitude in the middle ages.
The Tate Brothers enslaved people.
This is conflating organized crime with effectively genocide. It’s not about which is more evil so much as there are practical reasons to have concise and distinct terms for such things.
Slavery is legally systematic from historical perspectives. It was a legal thing to do. I disagree if you want to go through the details.
Human “trafficking” definitely a euphemism that makes people gloss over the horrific reality of slavery.
If I remember it’s because while slavery has been prohibited by the constitution for a longer time in the US, actually statuetes are more recent (WWII time period), so the legal doctrine against kidnapping and trafficking is actually more developed then slavery itself.
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This sounds terribly naive. You try and save a hooker, she’s going to knife you and take your wallet.
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It has been a long time, but I was reading a story of a woman I think from Myanmar who was promised a good job in her career. The man groomed her into coming to the states. Somehow she got in. I think she was an engineer or a marketer of some sorts. She was going to send money back for her family and daughter.
She got in the U.S., they stole her passport, gave her “uniforms” ie lingerie .
She was very confused until she started getting daily grapes, all day, every day. There were no breaks. There were young men, old men, children, and women, living in one house.
People who are enslaved like that, IIRC, usually die within three to five years
This thread feels very Christian fundie. There’s a lot of definition dancing and cherry picking.
The pimp/prostitute relationship isn’t slavery. Hookers don’t want to be emancipated from hooking anymore than potheads want to be emancipated from their slavish addiction to the devil’s lettuce.
That’s a huge generalization.
A friend of mine fell into escort work when times were tough. Then she got out. At no time did she knife anyone.
