Calling unnecessary circumcision of boys “genital mutilation” sounds frivolous because it makes it sound like you’re placing it alongside FGM in terms of its effects and severity. But it is nevertheless genital mutilation, by just about any definition you care to put forward. The men living in the non-circumcision-crazed countries of the world aren’t constantly having their blackened rotten cocks drop off from all the dick disease they’re allegedly exposed to by having an intact penis, so I don’t understand why you would feel the need to do this to your kid without a specific medical reason (of which there are very few that require surgical removal of the skin).
“But if you don’t wash it, it gets dickcheese!” and the solution to that is slicing the fucking skin off of it? The clue is in the warning: wash it. Teach your sons to care for their wilberts. Telling them to lather up their bellend in the shower is hardly something that needs prompting anyway.
Personal/intimate hygiene should be part of regular schooling. Not even as part of sex ex, just “how to care for your vessel” kinda shit. Don’t drink to excess, walk and move at least 10 minutes a day, stay away from illegal drugs, be careful with prescription drugs, and wash your bastard stinksausage.
It’s interesting that the pro circumcision crowd who rant about hygiene don’t support girls having their labia cut off to prevent grime from accumulating between the folds. Circumcision should be reserved for actual medical reasons, like phimosis, and if possible at age of consent.
The “hygiene” argument just shows me how backwards Americans are
Have the stupid cunts not heard of soap?
As a young child I didn’t know I had to wash between my toes, and I got athletes foot.
If only a kind doctor had cut all my toes off when I was born.
You are meant to wash under the foreskin obviously but only with water. Soap is generally considered too harsh for that area
But obviously there are times one uses soap. It’s part inside, part outside. You have to keep outside out of inside.
More like everyone’s too socially awkward to want to discuss any form of hygiene directly. Kinda wild really.
If you don’t wash behind your ears, bacteria will grow and cause it to smell. By their logic, they should be chopping off ears as well.
The purpose of circumcision is to make maturation and sex less pleasurable as it removes about 1/3 of sensory nerves and meant to make it more difficult to masturbate because you can’t just pull on tight skin. You can still perform the basic acts of sex and masturbation, but it’s not as pleasurable. Likewise, one can still hear without ears even if it’s not as good as those with intact ears.
Just goes to show how insane these people are.
and if possible at age of consent.
While I agree with the majority of the argument, I don’t agree with this point. Age of consent is mainly a political thing, disregarding the actualities involved with teenagers and sexual life, and discrediting those who have problems before that set age.
Biologically, pubescence which is around 13 is where this decision should be undertaken, as this is the point where the individual is sexually mature.
Medical problems start before the age of consent so the individuals which are sexually mature should have the option to treat this condition.
As an American who wasn’t circumcised, this country is so fucking weird about it. Like I got teased for it occasionally. People talk about hygiene, but from what I hear you’re unlikely to find a guy who cleans his asshole but not his foreskin. Like, do what you want with your body, get circumcised if you want, bifurcate the thing if you want, I don’t even have a dick anymore, but circumcising babies is taking that freedom away from them for reasons that always sound ludicrous to me.
And for the attractiveness thing, I’ve had exes who think foreskin is really hot, and personally I think dicks look super weird without it.
stay away from illegal drugs
No, just be careful and make sure that you understand what you’re doing.
“But if you don’t wash it, it gets dickcheese!”
did you know that when you don’t wash your hands you get lot of dirt stuck behind your fingernails? i got an idea! maybe we should take a pair of pliers and take those off as well. does that sound reasonable? no? that’s exactly how this “argument” makes me feel. when you don’t wash it then it gets dirty so we’d better cut it off is some really dumb stuff…
Kinda fucked up how people basically ignore the fact that we do genital mutilation in America.
Yeah but it’s to boys so who cares? /s
Its actually hurtful to watch the strong opposition to cirumcision involving girls yet barely any opposition involving boys. It looks like another take on sexism and like one commenter said, it makes it more difficult for trans people.
Circumcision for both genders should only be a medical decision, not a thing you or your parents decide just because.
I get where you’re coming from, and I absolutely don’t want to minimise anyone’s pain, but circumcision is not really equivalent to FGM in terms of consequences.
graphic detail
Often FGM includes removal of the clitoris and some of the vulva, leaving girls with a tiny aperture sealed with scar tissue requiring new fully torn flesh to achieve penetration, and girls and women who have been mutilated in this way are usually unable to feel any pleasure during sex, only pain. FGM much more like having the whole glans chopped off and half of the two sides of the wound sewn together than it is like male circumcision.
Feel very free to firmly oppose circumcision, but please don’t suggest that FGM is the same. It really really really isn’t. It’s very very different in what’s removed, very very different in how much ongoing pain it causes, very very different in the effect on sensation, and it’s not equivalent.
It’s like suggesting that it’s not fair that people treat cars running into people so much seriously than bikes running into people, except everyone, whether they ride a bicycle or a car, can see how incorrect that is, whereas a vast number of prior have no idea how brutal FGM is, which is how you end up with people claiming circumcision is just as bad. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s bad. But it’s in a whole different level and world of consequences for the girl than for the boy.
I agree but you’re missing the point. It’s (primarily) not about the harm it does, it’s about consent not having been given. Newborns cannot consent to such things. They cannot make such a decision. Parents do not have the right to make such a decision, nor does anyone except the person themself.
Millions of newborns are forced into various religions without their consent. Basing your argument off of consent only is kinda a wash argument unless your willing to fight all the other things parents do to their children without their consent.
unless your willing to fight all the other things parents do to their children without their consent
I am.
I don’t think you read behind my graphic detail spoiler, or you just claimed the equivalent of kissing you without your consent was just as bad as raping you, because they key point is consent. Incorrect. It is you who have missed the point. Kissing people without consent is not in any sense ok, but also trying to make out that my great aunt is a rapist because I never wanted the kisses trivialises rape and is not ok.
For what I’m saying how bad the thing is doesn’t matter, I do agree that FGM does more harm but the lack of consent is the real problem (eliminating the consent problem eliminates the entire problem, eliminating the harm problem does not solve the consent problem). I am not saying that FGM and circumcision are equally bad I am just saying that the root of the problem is the same in both cases.
Really fucked up that if you call it genital mutilation or the sexual assault of a child people will push back against it and defend the act.
Not having kids, but it was done to me and I’m fine with it.
I’ve been in a relationship for ages now, but before that all the womem I asked said that preferred cut over uncut. Literally. All. Of. Them. It was at least a dozen.
But hey, don’t let me disrupt this whole… Uhh… Thing you guys got going on this thread.
The mistake in all of this discussion is making those who are circumsized feel ashamed about it at all. No one should feel bad about being circumsized.
Now that that’s out of way, that’s a pretty weak counterargument. Your justification for why we should keep doing it is that society prefers it? That’s exactly the thing that’s finally being pushed back against. It’s inherently a barbaric practice that serves no medical purpose (for the large majority) and is purely aesthetic, and we’re doing it to newborn babies so they can look like their daddies and keep the social norm alive.
You don’t have anything to feel bad about and it’s great that it hasn’t been a hindrance for you, but as soon as one generation stops, your argument will be moot.
The only shaming I’ve seen in this thread so far is of the parents who made that decision, and rightly so. People like the guy you replied to are perpetuating the issue by being so nonchalant about it.
Men in many African countries also overwhelmingly prefer their women cut. Coincidence?
You’re obviously American, as were the women
It’s ok, we in the civilised world already think you’re stupid, your attitude towards mutilating the dicks of little boys is just another reason why we do.
Literally no thoughtful or reasonable sexual partner is going to say they prefer the type of penis it’s impossible for you to have, so that data is wildly biased.
I’m a woman and I’ve been with both. I don’t really care either way (and I feel confident most women who have actually been with both don’t really care) but my best lasting lover by far was uncut. I will not circumcise any sons I have.
Also in America cut is so normal that people may prefer it because they’re used to it.
But also, it’s fucking wild to argue to cut a piece off your baby’s genitals because of what future partners may mildly prefer. I wasn’t circumcised because my mom was firmly against the practice and I’m grateful for that.
And to add my anecdotes, back when I had a dick the foreskin never got in the way of me getting laid, and one ex was super excited to learn I had it.
Yes, because that’s what they’re used to. That’s not nothing. But in Australia I’ve had the opposite experience. Every single one saying they prefer uncut. It’s just what you’re exposed to.
If you are fine with being circumcised, that seems like the best possible outcome and I’m glad you are happy with your body in that way. However, many people were circumcised and are not fine with it. After all, it is a choice made for them without their consent. Also, it shouldn’t matter what women prefer. It should be your body, your choice. If someone wants to get circumcised later in life, that is their choice.
it’s wild to me how many let this one thing dominate their entire identity and rail against their parents for it.
Our parents are fallible. Its okay to point out the fucked up shit they did to us and say “this shit is fucked up”
yeah they should have beaten more kids so they wouldn’t have time to winge about this garbage
amab genital mutilation makes bottom surgery more complicated for transfems
yes it’s also immoral and shouldn’t be done on infants of any gender who can’t give consent (and should be illegal, as should intersex genital mutilation, aka “surgical correction”)
Huh, didn’t even occur to me there would be trans complications as well.
Yeah, though American bottom surgeons are so used to it they see the foreskin as making it easier rather than the lack of it making it more difficult. At least that’s how it was for my surgeon
Do you know why UK men are rarely circumcized when it’s the norm in the U.S?
At some point the UK government decided that circumcision wouldn’t be covered by the national health insurance.
And just like that. It went out of fashion.
I’m sure the greedy U.S insurance companies would be more than happy to stop covering that service.
Fight fire with fire.
Get the insurance companies to stop covering it. And we can finally save boys from being mutilated.
Not just UK most of the world is uncircumcised, it’s only a thing in Abrahamic religions and USA
Yeah cause mutilating baby genitals is bad. Most people get that.
But also my example was to illustrate how the trend was changed in the UK and perhaps it’s a possible way to do the same in the U.S.
People is the US are just brain dead “christian” morons
It may have started that way, but nowadays it’s normalized to the point where it’s something most people just automatically do. Any harm to the person undergoing this is waved away and rationalized as “it will hurt for just a second and they won’t remember it anyway”.
After my brother-in-law had his boy, he proudly announced they were taking him to be circumcized. Taken aback, I asked him why - he’s one of the most non-religious people I’ve ever known. I was just met by an empty stare, as if I were the weird one for asking. Sadly, at this point it might be more popular than the essential vaccines which are supposed to be administered at birth.
People is the US are just brain dead
“christian”moronsOk, ftfy
yeah that’s not entirely wrong sadly
A kid died in Australia because a doctor botched the circumcision of a toddler and he went septic.
Barbaric cultural practise to do it to children, but I do think it’s fine if they medically need it or you are an adult and want it done.
Yeah adults can decide and of course it treats conditions like phimosis which is when the foreskin is super tight.
Watch 'em start trying to do it at home.
Well unlike making abortion illegal, making it so that insurance won’t cover it just means you would have to pay for it.
And I’m sure some still will.
But I can’t see too many people trying to do it at home.
What do you call a discount circumcision?
A ripoff.
Stop all infant genital mutilation.
Not just circumcision but also de-intersex-ification.
When a baby is born with both types of genitals what usually happens is that the male ones are immediately removed and the person is raised as a woman. This is unethical. The infant cannot consent to being mutilated, it is an infant. Ban this barbaric practice.
Best we can do is punishing adults doing stuff consentually. Its the consent that makes it unethical.
Its like 10 in² removed by circumcision. Not necessarily length or girth from your dick. But 10 in² of incredibly sensitive skin on your sex organ.
New imperial unit for area dropped.
The squinch
religion is a poison
oh hi vanta 👋 :)
And culture to a point. My family is from India and places more importance on social standing and “what others think” than personal freedom or happiness. That’s why I never have plans to tell my parents I’m gay. I see my uncles and aunts refuse to accept that their kids married non-Indians. I can only imagine how my parents would react to being a gay man.
I feel like people who have children then discard them should be hanged.
Shit
(Did I follow the instructions in the title correctly?)
Nah you capitalized it
No one said post it after typing…
Hedwig approves. His inch is still very angry.
shit
I could not, would not, with a mohel
Would not, should not, with hot oil
shit
Good to see these young heros fighting the good fight
I feel like I missed about 10 layers of context here… and I’m not sure I want them 😭
Americans still routinely mutilate baby boys, because they’re stupid
And fisting is just a beacon of healthy genital exploration?
It’s harmless
Most importantly, it’s done with consent
It gets terribly misrepresented in porn
Do you bring up fisting in every conversation or only when it’s about something below the belt?
