Privacy for me has been incredibly rewarding, but when talking to people who haven’t been introduced to privacy, there are occasionally some moments that make it exhausting. One conversation in particular is one that I’ve had to go through dozens of times, and it always goes along these lines:
- Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode? / What’s your phone number?
- Bob: I don’t have a carrier.
- Alice: But you have a phone.
- Bob: Yes.
- Alice: How do you not have a carrier?
- Bob: Phones can come without a carrier.
- Alice: What do you use it for?
- Bob: Everything you use yours for.
- Alice: How do you talk to people?
- Bob: Messaging apps over Wi-Fi.
- Alice: What if you don’t have Wi-Fi?
- Bob: Public Wi-Fi is everywhere. If I don’t have Wi-Fi, I likely don’t need to get in touch.
- Alice: What about emergencies?
- Bob: I can still contact emergency services.
Each time it happens, it has a unique flavor. One person accused me of lying and then fraud. I know people are just curious and don’t mean to be rude, but it makes me die a little inside every time someone asks. I’ve begun trying to sidestep the conversation entirely:
- Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode?
- Bob: To save battery.
or:
- Alice: What’s your phone number?
- Bob: You can contact me with an app called Signal.
People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it’ll stop working if you don’t have one. In reality, I’m saving hundreds of dollars per year while avoiding spam, fraud, breaches, surveillance, and being chronically online. People have a hard time coping with those who do things a little differently.
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I generally keep my privacy habits to myself, but if someone asks I will tell them. It’s always better to try with a chance of getting them interested than not to try at all.
If you are an old programmer/geek young people will dismiss you even though they don’t even know what a folder is. They think they are IT experts because they can apply the latest instagram filters to their photos.
even though they don’t even know what a folder is
Someone once tried sharing a file with me by copy pasting the file path as if it were a URL
I have shared and exposed my close friends to it and they use signal with me
Jup. I made that conclusion too.
However one time two friends asked me about secure messengers and I reluctantly gave up that I used Signal. Since then everyone in my closer friend circle suddenly had Signal.
Totally wrong, skill issue.
Do you use your phone for navigation when driving? Any good app recommendations for navigating without cellular data?
*Cycling, but yes. I use CoMaps.
Ultimate Lemming:
- Cycles only, detects cars
- Uses CoMaps
- Uses Archlinux?
Im just jokin with ya 😉
Uses Archlinux?
secureblue :)
Hopefully they can be overhauling UI to be much better. Would be cool if they made calls to wider community for UI people to come in to help out
Last time I checked, you can use GPS without carrier. GPS, and GNSS in general, is separate set of satellites. With cellular It’s just more precise since initial triangulation facilitated by cell towers. I recently was mid 5 hours flight and was able to see my location in google maps despite being in flight mode
Herewego works offline.
Yeah I dont get the comaps hype. It sucks anywhere that’s not a megalopolis. Here wego is far far better (for me).
This is the scene from Parks and Rec where Ron Swanson has to eventually concede to getting a flip phone.
Try not having a phone at all. Those conversations are fun
How are you even alive?!
Edit:
I thought you had to have a phone number to use Signal.
Could have a voip phone number
I don’t know how to get one and shouldn’t have to, just to use an app like Signal. Why isn’t there one we can use without having to give them a phone #?
Just use matrix or xmpp. Signal is centralized. If they stop offering the service it’s gone forever.
There’s always a compromise between security and accessibility. Signal is nice in that it’s pretty secure while also being acceptable. More secure options aren’t very accessible to the average person.
Signal does not care about anyone who does not use android or ios and offers no official way to create an account without them. I wouldn’t call that accessible.
“Universally accessible” is not a synonym for “accessible.”
That seems like a better idea, but it 's the same old problem where you’d have to get the people you want to communicate with to switch from Signal to that.
SimpleX uses the Signal engine but requires no phone number. Also can awt up your own server (unlike Signal).
A search for that term brings up about 10 different things from crypto to herpes, nothing about a messaging app
Search for it in the Google play store.
Thanks! They also have a desktop and a terminal version, nice.
Last I checked (over a year ago) desktop was not great. IIRC there was no scroll bar.
Also getting noobs to join is tricky. You cannot use your native camera app to accept an invite (has to be via the SimpleX app) and it screws up invites via Facebook messenger (gets confused by the tracking suffix Facebook appends).
No. Not any more.
Edit: Sorry apparently you still need a number for the registration.
Something I’ve been investigating is setting up a meshtastic node at home with the expansion board. This gives me a 15-20km range for basic signal, which is more than enough for most stuff I want to do, and I can connect to other nodes in the area when needed.
I’d still need to add a temporary eSIM when traveling sometimes, but that can be a temporary thing.
So… I’m kind of in the same situation but mine is actually by mistake. Namely my SIM somehow (OK maybe I tinkered with eSIM a bit much… anyway) works for data and SMS but not for calls. I tried to fix it a bit… then honestly I like it without. Most of the calls I received are not important, nor urgent, and the few that are can leave a message or an SMS.
I stopped relying on my phone for calls entirely and I like it.
When I tell people it doesn’t work they just shrug it off and always find a way to contact me without making a big deal out of it.
I still like having a SIM though if only to
- check where I am on a path the first time I get there
- know if the person I’m meeting might be late
- warn if I’m late on the way to somewhere
but typically my phone works well entirely offline (e.g. I do not stream music, I have actual files on my phone) so I understand.
Honestly in your shoes I’d gauge the person, if they are potentially interesting enough to explore the topic with curiosity, I’d be honest. If I just want to move on because they seem obtuse I’d keep it to the minimum.
I considered this option, but public WiFi is not ubiquitous enough here (in France) for my usage, and I believe a SIM card is absolutely required even for emergency services, which is what ultimately turned me off the idea.
in France
My heart goes out to privacy enthusiasts in France. You guys are really going through it right now.
SIM card is absolutely required even for emergency services
For anyone wondering: while technically the cell towers might be able to accept emergency calls even without network authentication (which is what’s the SIM is for), there are countries/places that will still require an active SIM with the excuse of wanting to prevent hoax calls.
And isn’t public WiFi more of a security issue than having your own carrier?
If you explain yourself, people take that as meaning it’s up for debate. Better to say “I like it that way”.
I considered swapping to a flip-phone but stopped because I need to be able to access my banking app when near ATM’s. My card only ever has the bare minimum amount of money on it so that theft isn’t a concern.
If you explain yourself, people take that as meaning it’s up for debate.
Whenever you run into those people, I think it’s best to just tell them to fuck off. Maybe word it a bit more diplomatically, but still get the meaning across that it’s not a debate
It’s essentially cognitive dissonance. People are introduced to a life so different from their own that they attack it like an overactive immune system. They see it like a problem that needs fixed, rather than a lifestyle to learn about. It doesn’t help with how much people are conditioned to criminalize privacy, either.
oh wow. mine actually is airplane mode to save battery. TIL.
hundreds of dollars per year? That’s how much a carrier is over there??
I’m paying over $100 per month for 3 lines. 4th line is $6 a month from Tello
How much data do you have at that price ? I’m paying 19€/month for 4 lines, 3 at 5€/month with 30Gb and one at 4€/month for 25Gb
Damn that’s cheap. I pay $50/month per person, for unlimited
I’m on a popular discount carrier, and it’s ~$30/month. One of the big three carriers will easily charge $100/month.
Most people will try to find a family plan that lowers the cost per user but it comes with big caveats like long-ish term contracts and some nasty fine-print. And if your carrier gets bought out, which is happening a lot, you never know what changes might get force fed to you
That’s how much a carrier is over there??
Yes. The “poverty” option is $15/month, but plans can easily go up to $100 or more per month. Out of curiosity, how much are they charging across the pond?
Yeah as a Dane, (different from dutch above) mobile’s usually between €8-15, we do have plans that go higher, but 4G 30GB per month I figure is pretty survivable unless it’s your only net (mine’s 10GB :P)
I’ve never had someone ask me for my phone number. They usually ask me to text them, at which point they have my (throw away) number.
Everyone is totally unaware when I’m de-carriered.
I did something similar with an old spare phone for a while when my actual phone screen stopped working. I carried both around, but I found 90% of my use cases didn’t involve phone calls or even texting.
I do find it convenient to have my phone connected to tailscale so I can access my home network from anywhere.
And I don’t necessarily trust public wifi.
But otherwise, I fully support this and think it’s entirely viable for most people.
Setup a VPN to your home router and use that when you are on a public wifi. That way all your traffic is fully encypted through the public wifi.
Woah thats fricken cool
Technology can be adapted to everyone’s unique workflow.
Yours is a highly specialised one, that apparently works for you. Something i may try for a day or two, but am confident can never adapt to my work flow. (Only know 2 “free” WiFi spots in my town. One wants an account. The other wants a phone number)
Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone, in case family dies or something and they don’t have access to the right app. That’s reasonable for close family to get upset about.
But you also don’t have to give that number out, heh.
I guess you could use Google Voice too, but that’s a bit… counterproductive unless you can sandbox the app.
I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone
Those are becoming harder and harder to find. It’s hard to even find prepaid SIM cards. You now have to buy a voucher, create an account, and add it there, which activates the phone for the number of months the voucher is worth.
