Comparison left vs right for a craftsman who doesnt know which one he should buy:
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l/r same bed size
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r lower bed for way easier loading/unloading
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r less likely to crash
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r less fuel consumption and costs
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r less expensive to repair
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r easy to park
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r easy to get around in narrow places like crowded construction sites or towns
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r not participating in road arms race
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l You get taken serious by your fellow carbrained americans because ““trucks”” are normalized and small handy cars are ridiculed.
So unless you are a fragile piece of human, choose the right one.
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I agree with the sentiment of this post, but to be fair, you can also carry 3 or 4 passengers in the left vehicle, as opposed to only one in the right.
The main problem is the US fuel economy regulations actually encourage manufacturers to build bigger trucks and SUVs so they get classified into a category that has looser fuel economy requirements.
The extended cab version of the right truck would still tick all the boxes.
Off-road and towing capacity are probably the main feature you give up with that sort of design. Whether or not most people need that is a separate story.
They make kei trucks in 4x4, but you do lose ground clearance.
That being said, what kind of “off road” conditions are any of the trucks really contending with?
Muddy fields when parking at church or boy scouts or whatever.
Whats best is the kei 4x4 is probably significantly better in most off road situations due to its lighter weight and shorter wheel base. You can drive/manuever around things easier and when you are on mud or sand, the lighter weight prevents sinking.
what kind of “off road” conditions are any of the trucks really contending with?
Probably all of the conditions, considering how many of those trucks there are, but it would be fun to see an off-road shootout between the two.
Sounds like a job for Donut Media.
You are right. Still the american truck is hugely oversized, even for 5 persons and cargo. But, for the sake of the argument, imagine standing on the highway. Have a gander at the cars around you. How many people per car do you see? Exactly, 90% of the time there is exactly one person in a car. What makes the american truck an extreme waste of space an ressources, beside being a health hazard to everyone outside of the car.
Cars should get smaller, not bigger.
You’re mostly right. The main problem is that manufacturers chose to ignore the spirit of the US CAFE fuel economy regulations, and instead build everything bigger and bigger. That’s why quarter-ton trucks grew to the size of the F150 in the year 2000 when they were quite a bit smaller before.
It’s not the fault of the regulation. It is the fault of the manufacturers and to an equal extent, of consumers for preferring gigantic vehicles.
And let’s not let GM off the hook for the 1990s Suburban, which began to, quite literally, dominate the roads. Those fuckers were the original huge grocery getter, and they had truly awful turning radius and blind spots. You just couldn’t drive them safely or courteously if you tried. So of course everyone wanted more powerful and bigger vehicles to compete.
I thought it was very disingenuous of OP to not mention crew capacity between the two trucks at all. I’d assume the bigger truck also has a better towing capacity which may be required. What isn’t required is buying one of these trucks to get groceries and replace your tv every 3 years while commuting to your desk job 1 hour away.
But what about cargo capacity? The beds look pretty much the same size, although I’m sure allowed weight is drastically different
The main post claims the beds are the same size. Technically speaking in terms of volume the kei truck wins due to lower bed height (if we are using max height to pass bridges as our standard). As for weight I’m pretty sure the left truck wins out on total capacity. That said the kei truck is still a remarkably useful minitruck and i wish they had a bigger market in the west.
I would bet the standard seating for the left truck is five, but you could easily cram six in. Unless the front row is connected, then it would be even more.
The name crew can exist for reason, that how pack all your labourers in to job site, now 80% of tradesman don’t have a whole crew of labourers so the point is still there.
There name crew can exist for reason, that how pack all your labourers in to job site
Can’t tow a boat an RV or trailer with the Japanese vehicle. All things Americans do for fun. For work? The Japanese vehicle can’t haul 6,000 lbs of lumbar or steel, nor can it pull another vehicle out of a ditch.
Just gonna keep on posting this
I love that there’s casually an Abrams in the middle there.
Good pic. Question : I’m new to Lemmy. How come it’s almost impossible to resize a pic without the pic closing on me? Is there a trick to this?
I have this same problem on the Connect app. Which app are you using?
Connect haha
Over here on Memmy you can fullscreen and resize it pretty seamlessly.
This is why Pedestrian crash avoidance mitigation (PCAM) needs to be standard required by law, and will be on Californian shortly, and with California goes the world.
You don’t happen to be a toxicologist, do you?
¿Que?
This pic is fantastic but I wish there were more examples from actual alternatives to what people claim they need the pickups for e.g. vans like Trafics, Kangoos/Berlingos, Mercedes Sprinter/Vito etc etc. There is at least a sprinter there in version pickup, which has a very good result as I’m sure the other ones would as well, because these things tend to have the windshield all the way at the front of the vehicle so you have great visibility for the front 180°, the back 180° depends on the configuration you have which range from completely closed/opaque cargo space to fully furnished 5/7 seaters with windows.
95% of the craftsmen I know have panel vans. Easier to both organize and secure tools and materials, more overall room.
I lived in (and now commute through) a neighborhood of older houses, and higher incomes, so I see a lot of contractor vehicles. It seems like it breaks down as landscapers and lawn services use the pickup trucks; trades companies (plumbers, electricians, HVAC, carpenters, painters, etc.) use vans or box trucks; and the independent guys tend to use Dodge Caravans. Nearby, the university uses fleets of kei trucks (the low-speed versions because “freedom”), Ford Model E vans, and Caravans. I think the landscaping crew has pickups.
There are an increasing number of company pickup trucks, but most of them appear to be pavement princesses, used only for their usual function: transporting egos, not equipment.
Landscaping crews tend to pull trailers though. I imagine that’s why.
Ours are utes. Either road versions or 4×4 versions. American trucks sell here but they’re seen as a joke in both capability and practicality, so it’s assumed the owner is very insecure about something or not very intelligent. As a result, they’re very rare.
Until you have an odd size item like a door in frame. Or need to move something like a 1 man post lift. And since you know you won’t be cleaning it out as often so your always going to have extra crap your hauling for no reason. I’m just going off every pro that has shown up for work at my job sites in a van.
I had a 1 ton Ford van for 12 years and I could haul a pallet of flooring or 20 sheets of drywall inside it, as well as lumber 12 feet or shorter. Anything more bulky than what fits inside a van like that would have difficulty fitting inside a 6.5 foot truck bed without a rats nest of ratchet straps and hanging way over the tailgate.
You have the right of it. If it won’t fit in the van, you hook up a trailer. The cost of the van and trailer combined is still a sight less than these living rooms on wheels.
Aren’t the vans we’re discussing here just as big (or even bigger if you consider the height) as the truck? It’s a truck frame with a big enclosed box on top
Yes, but full-size vans aren’t a popular vehicle outside of passenger and tradesmen applications, unlike pickup trucks. I was only pointing out that North Americans apparently prefer to have a passenger vehicle where 40-50% of the wheelbase is unused useless space.
Some are, and yet they still have better visibility and lower center of gravity and fuel economy etc.
Trucks seem to be optimized for niche use but somehow managed to end up being the default for all kinds of uses where other vehicles would be better.
Since Americans are obese, it makes sense that their cars are too.
I was looking for the “America bad” comment, was not disappointed. At least that carried over from reddit.
They are absolutely the driver in this market, like it or not.
That obesity is quite common in the U.S. is true. Source.
I was looking for the “America bad” comment comment, was not disappointed. At least our fragile egos carried over from Reddit.
Jesus, you people can’t stop yourselves lol. I love it.
Willing to bet right is owned by a true worker doing real work and left is some trumpet who uses that ugly tank to drive to Walmart to buy toilet paper.
Based on what I have seen at construction sites in Asia and the US you are correct.
Most construction workers don’t actually need to move all that much stuff so they tend towards regular vehicles or at most vans or small pickups. Raw material is delivered on semis. Every time I have known someone who owns a vehicle like that they could manage with a sedan. When I go out to a site my gear weights about as much as I do and it’s with two techs in an economy car.
Best example was one place I was at had these fake union jobs. One guy’s whole job was to babysit a machine. He drove one of those. Lazy mofo. Never packed lunch, wouldn’t sweep up his “workspace”, his entire day was on his phone.
One of the electricians in my town has a minivan and I’ve seen him use it to bring an entire 5x14 enclosed trailer full of gear to a jobsite a few times.
I am trying to think and the only construction worker I have ever known to have one of those oversized trucks was a welder. So about 1 out of like a 100. And it was constantly having issues.
Most of them have those job trailers you described when they need to move and secure a bunch of stuff at site. Safer anyway for an electrician since they got those wire spools.
The electrician I’m talking about also has a work area in the front (side closest to the vehicle) which has a workbench and a charging port for a laptop. Actually works very well for him because he can unbox panel and meter boxes and prep them right there without having to make a mess in a client’s house. Probably better than an oversized truck.
I also like the idea of trailers because if you haul something which breaks or damages the trailer, it’s probably cheaper to fix/replace the trailer than a truck. Maybe just me though.
Yep. I’m an American tradesman and the trucks that the guys drive are way too beefy for what they actually do.
I’ve gotten by with small Toyota trucks, and rav 4s…much to the chagrin of the good old boys. Should have seen their face when I rolled up in a prius…till I tell em I get 50 mpg easy.
I would love a small little truck like this one in the photo.
The most handy truck I had doing construction when I was a kid was out Mazda B2200 with the Perkins diesel. It’d go forever on no fuel and was perfect for grabbing a few tools for a quick run to a job site.
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Also spent a lot of time in the industry (drywall, lath, and plaster). Key cars top out somewhere around 750 pounds of capacity, and I could early blow through that with brining materials to a job site, or hauling stuff to the dump.
Key cars are cool, but you also need other solutions in place for materials delivery and hauling. American trucks are kind of a one size fits all approach to construction. Your truck for heavy hauling is also the truck you use for light hauling.
Most Kei trucks do top out around 750lbs, but I know for a fact that there are models of Honda Acty that have a rated bed load around 1500lbs and a rated towing capacity around 2200lbs
TIL. That’s pretty cool.
Although the payload capacity of an American truck is often double that. It’s pretty easy to hit 1500lbs with 10 bags of cement, a person, and some gear. I’m assuming Japan has other solutions for hauling that are pretty common. I’m guessing there are some pretty big differences in their construction workflows and logistics that make key cars practical.
IMHO, contractor’s work trucks aren’t the problem is the US. The bigger problem is that most of those vehicles are sold to private citizens who think the space is convenient for an occasional camping trip or an epic Costco run.
I don’t know about Japan but here in Europe I just see tradesmen, needing large quantities, getting their materials delivered on a pallet from a semi-trailer.
Most use vans though for carrying their equipment, since you usually don’t want your gear sitting outside, like it would on a pickup truck.
Yea for sure. I’m not in a line of business where I need to he hauling stuff like that anymore. I mostly stick to the finish work these days. So I can get by w a car. If I were say a plumber or doing gutters or whatever, I could see how it’s reasonable to have say a box truck etc.
Most tradesmen I know haul a trailer with their tools and supplies so that they have the option of unhooking and leaving all that weight behind without unloading the truck. Or, conversely, unhooking at the jobsite so that their workers can keep going while they run for supplies.
You can get one. They get imported. Search for Japanese car imports to your local area. Search for Kei Truck and you’ll find em. You can get an awd turbo diesel for around 8-10k
Yea I never actually looked into it, i alwats figured the import would be expensive. Right now my situation is a little…um…fkd up… but when I have enough to invest in another vehicle, i will def consider it. I would love one. And would be perfect for my uses. I’m sure I’d get labeled a humorous title by the lovely gentlemen on the job sites. I live in a rural area. And the boys love their big trucks. And guns. And a whole manner of things.
people bring them in all the time. I live in Portland and there’s a guy in town who imports them and fixes them up (@vanlifenorthwest). They’ve gotten popular tho and aren’t the bargains that they once were
A friend of mine bought one; essentially once a car is a classic or something like 25 years old they’re not subjected to the same regulations that newer cars have to meet. Since car culture in Japan is very different than here in the states a lot have lived their lives in garages and have really low miles and if you know what model to get, parts are still readily available. The only issue is driving a right hand drive vehicle in this country takes some getting used to. I drove his for a couple of days and right hand turns in particular feel sketchy
Yea the antique vehicle code or whatever. There’s no emissions inspection where I live anyway lol. I wonder how these trucks are in the snow. I lived in Portland for 6 months and it snowed once barely… but where I’m at now, we get swamped ftmp. I highly doubt there is anyone around here importing these vehicles…maybe in the city though. I’ll have to research. Thanks for the info. Totally forgot about the driver side thing lol.
This is why I loved my Nissan d21 when I had it
This is a simillar truck compared to what I had
I like those old school trucks. Perfect size. No over the top gaudy BS. Just simple and utilitarian.
Why isn’t that an option anymore‽ I’d absolutely love my 94 Ford ranger again, and I’m totes jelly of the old school Tacoma owners.
Brooo I’m jelly of the old school Toyota truck owners. From before it was called the Tacoma
The emissions laws are terribly written. Combined with safety laws, makes going bigger the sensible option. And to the average buyer, go a little bigger than you absolutely need is definitely something to think about.
A friend died in a Ford Ranger. They literally have no crumple zone.
I fvcking love kei trucks but one counter point - a lot of US is shitty rural roads at 50-60 mph (80-95kmh) plus freeways at even higher speeds. Kei trucks are more of a city thing and just wouldn’t fare well here. They are however very popular on university campuses.
100km/h isn’t that fast…
You haven’t been in a kei truck then
I get the point your trying to prove but i don’t think it’s fair to compare these 2 as they are meant for different things and also brings in the assumption that all American craftsman vehicles are 2500HD’s, which is not true.
Now I agree, people using the one on the left specifically as a daily driver is actually overkill and are not using it for what it’s supposed to be used for. The one on the left is a 2500HD. They are SUPPOSED to be used for hauling and carrying equipment. The crew cab is meant to also transport the crew that is for said equipment.
The one the right is specifically meant what appears to be lighter duty use and hauling. I agree that people should use the right tool for the job. I find the one on the right to be very practical. But for the sake of this post as a means to compare Japanese craftsman vehicles to American.
You should actually show something actually comparable. Like a ford ranger with a standard cab. Which might be about the same size and power. Maybe even the same bed size. Not something that has HD (Heavy duty) in its name.
The only places I’ve seen trucks like the 2500HD are north America, Australia and Thailand. They usually have only one, or rarely two people people in them. They never have a significant load in the bed. Everywhere else uses vans and light trucks and gets along just fine…
Yea these vehicles are more prominent in North America. Again, people don’t always use them as they are intended.
It seems like your implying there is no need for a 2500HD whatsoever and that everything can be handled with a light duty vehicle. If not, then I’m not exactly sure what point your trying to make. People who use these vehicles with there intended purpose are going to be seen in use with their intended purpose.
Also keep in mind that just because YOU don’t see one with a load, doesn’t mean the owner doesn’t have a good reason for having one. If a light duty van or truck is getting along just fine. It’s probably being used for light duty tasks. But if you use a light duty to haul say a fully loaded 3 car trailer or move large farm equipment, your going to completely ruin the vehicle.
My point was that they completely absent from most countries. My hypothesis being that if there was a common task these vehicles were particularly suited to they would be more ubiquitous. I can’t help but think their success is due to marketing and masculine appeal rather than practicality.
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Is there a fat boy option? Genuinely asking a question. I’m 6’5" and a 300 pound linebacker. Small cars are so hard to get into. Honda fit was OK but I had to always get in but first and tilt my head all they way to make it in. The space behind me was a dead seat because a person would not be able to fit there legs. Mid size SUVs are the same, small trucks, even full size sedans are so hard to get into because of my height and they are so close to the ground. My knees always hurt after a while driving because my knees are against the dash. I got a single cab full sized truck but with the prospect of a spawn coming soon, my wife and I are looking for a different option. Thank you any input.
What really annoys me are the pavement princesses - the giant pickups with the lift kits & such, that obviously haven’t ever been driven off of pavement. Bonus if it’s a coal-roller.
I’d understand when the big trucks are used for work and are built that way because the job demands it. But too often, they’re used as prosthetic penises.
I do woodworking and have gotten by with my Subaru but occasionally need to pick up 4x8 sheets of plywood, OSB, or even drywall for the house. An electric kei truck would be perfect. I’m rooting for something like the Canoo or Telo EV truck to make it to market
Have you tried using a roof rack to strap the plywood down?
This is what I do but not when it’s raining. Same with drywall.
Anything American should be avoided. Their food is full of sugar, cars are big and useless and internet companies always try to screw their users.
I agree with the idea with the exceptions of towing capacity, passenger capacity, and possibly (probably) bed weight capacity.
But if you’re one guy that doesn’t tow anything and needs to haul a few sheets of plywood, sure, it makes sense.
The percentage of trucks on the left I see actually doing that is functionally 0%
Oh that may be true- but if we’re talking to working craftsman and builders as opposed to “anyone buying a truck” I think it matters.
Most truck buyers don’t need one. I don’t have a truck but I do have a 3600lb pop up camper that we tow with a Honda pilot. It’s basically the exact same car as the Honda Ridgeline pickup but with a hatch instead of a bed. It’s also a kid and vacation mobile.
In my case I’m not a craftsman but still couldn’t get by with the little truck because of towing and passenger capacity, that’s all I was saying.
Yeah for the whole 3 times a year you tow that thing.
That’s just it: 99% of the time these vehicles are not being used to their capacity.
And people think that 1% somehow justifies the entire other 99%
It’s laughable.
Well first off, we go camping 3 seasons a year, sometimes twice a month. Renting a car for camping, sometimes hundreds of miles away a dozen times a year doesn’t make any financial sense. Second, it’s our only big car and it’s used every time we have to pack the kids, dog, and luggage to go somewhere. My daily driver is a 4 door Subaru, not a Tahoe.
If I only need to tow or pack a vehicle once a year, I’d definitely consider renting, but that’s just not the case. I just hauled about 1000 lbs of lumber from home depot today- it literally gets used for its purpose on a weekly basis.
I’m not arguing the point there are lots of pickup bros that just run around in a king ranch solo and spend their weekend polishing it and taking all the parking spots at the mall, I’m just saying I really don’t think it’s really 99%. I see hundreds of tradespeople and weekend home improvement warriors on a daily basis.
Every pickup bro think pickups are justified. And they trot out all the same points you just made.
I offer you challenge: count every pickup you see, and record whether or not it has a load. I actually did that for a month, and its literally below 1% usage.
We don’t need a lot of anything bar food, water, oxygen and sex. I’m all for sensible cars Vs that monstrosity on the left, but as hobbies go - boating is not the most offensive.
The problem I have with boating is that it takes a number of related environmentally irresponsible “wants” and chains them together into a series of linked “needs”. One “needs” the truck because they have a boat. That’s expected to be the end of the discussion, but really it isn’t because it is fair to continue to question the whole chain. People are bad at distinguishing wants and needs, or alternatively people are very good at presenting their wants as needs when a justification is needed.
As a person who likes boating, I don’t understand people wanting to tow around their boats all the time. If I were to ride a boat sufficiently that owning one makes sense, it would stay at the marina. Because why would I want a boat in front of my house? Then again I just rent boats because I want to ride them in different locations.
As an American, I’ve written to multiple manufacturers, foreign and domestic, to bring/build the smaller Kei trucks but I have never heard any response except for Ford that basically sent a brochure for their F150 that has ‘more space’ for ‘getting work done’. I would love these for practicality but the cost of importing a used one was MUCH higher than buying a normal truck/suv here. :(
Excited for when American trucks just become literal tanks. Seems to be the trend since everything here constantly needs to be bigger bigger bigger for suburbanites. Who needs yards when you can have bigger houses? Who needs a healthy environment when you can drive gas guzzling giants? We’re so unprepared to deal with climate change it’s depressing. I want to believe that our culture will eventually naturally see the value in smaller, simpler things, but the trends haven’t changed yet and I don’t see why they would.
Really wish I could get my hands on one of these. The import process is so complicated it makes it barely cheaper than a domestic used truck.
So it’s still cheaper than a domestic used truck?
With a bunch of headache and work to do the paperwork, sure. Depends on what your time is worth.
Plus can’t imagine it’s cheap to work on a car that had to be fully imported by yourself. A car sold here likely has more readily available parts.
I was going to buy one of the kei trucks when I had to replace my truck in 2022. I ended up with a base used F150 for 12k, because it was cheaper than any kei truck I could find.
