- cross-posted to:
- showerthoughts@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- showerthoughts@lemmy.world
There’s clearly a lean to the left side of things in Lemmy instances, with many people attacking people at the right.
In some cases regarding the climate crisis, there’s people blaming it on capitalism while hinting that communism/socialism are the solution to the climate crisis, because somehow having the state controlling the entire economy will lead to stop CO2 emissions.
A bit from the article:
The best way to protect the environment is to get rich. That way, there is enough money not only to meet the needs of ordinary people, but also to pay for cleaner power plants and better water-treatment facilities. Since capitalism is the best way to create wealth, humanity should stick with it.
Not the first time I’ve heard about this concept, and the more i look into the world the more I agree with it. Being green is kind of a luxury that not many people can afford, and the poorer people are the less they can afford green technology.
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Also just below that-
“It should be stated plainly: It’s capitalism that is at fault…”
I wonder if they read the article at all lol
The article is really bad on multiple fronts.
First, it somehow thinks that Marxist-Leninism is the original communism, which is just silly. It is neither original nor official. It was just a strand of authoritarian, central-planning socialism which is largely rejected in the West and by current socialist movements and revolutions such as the Rojava Revolution and the EZLN.
Secondly, it misses the point by a mile. You can’t ever earn enough money to make the world grener if you ruin the world while making money. Capitalist system has those who own means of productions, the capitalists, and their main goal is always to make more money and grow. A culture that has a arisen to compliment this need, consumerism, is what frives infinite growth within the finite world that is killing us.
Yes, some places should go richer and have more industries, but a lot od the world overoroduces by a huge margin, while at the same time running out of housing due to insane amount of landlord ownership over property.
There is no Green Capitalism. Not because they (the capitalists) don’t want it (they don’t), but because the system itslef relies on infinite growth, which inevitably leads to overexploitation of our common planet.
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Let’s agree to disagree
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Jeez a communist disliking such an article, what a surprise.
Yes, I am a communist and I do dislike this article. However, whatever your own political orientation is, you ought to dislike it to for a simply for being untrue.
Not the first time I’ve heard about this concept, and the more i look into the world the more I agree with it. Being green is kind of a luxury that not many people can afford, and the poorer people are the less they can afford green technology.
You should look a bit more into the world if you didn’t notice how good capitalism is at making the poors poorer.
There’s tons of data showing that capitalism actually makes the average joe a lot richer.
And how many homeless does the US have?
Is the US the only example of a capitalist country you know about?
It’s the exact most capitalist
The article keeps referring to “socialism” and then referring exclusively to communist societies, and so can safely be disregarded entirely if you are pursuing absolutely any form of democratic socialism.
They refer to Venezuela which is a socialist country, and of course not the greenest country in the world.
Venezuela is an autocracy. The social programs are bribes to delay the next revolution
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Could it be because their economy is in crumbles?
It’s easy to be green if you don’t consume too much energy.
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What a croc - never trust anything “left vs right” from the Cato institute. Cato has never seen a problem that capitalist billionaires could not solve and “communism” did not create.
Either way - capitalism does not care to solve climate change because we allowed the capitalists to externalise the costs. If we prices climate damage into the cost of goods - sure capitalism could perhaps be less than evil. But of course capitalism breed oligarchs and oligarchy and thus markets were deformed to benefit the oligarchs (and socialise risks while privatising profits).
You know how you improve capitalism? You add a very large dose of socialism
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From 2023 perspective that does seem like a viable path indeed.
But of course capitalism breed oligarchs and oligarchy and thus markets were deformed to benefit the oligarchs (and socialise risks while privatising profits).
In my opinion when you start having oligarchs and this amount of wealth inequality, it’s only a symptom that the state is failing to do what was created to do, at-least in theory.
The state should be only a regulator, more like a referee in the market. Currently everywhere in western democracies the state is failing to do it. We have the lower income people getting taxed to hell, either directly or by proxy while the uber-rich are influencing the state regulation directly.
Do not take this as a personal attack but your perspective is naive. All around the world capitalists argue for libertarianism or other forms of state stepping back from regulating oligarchy. It’s a feature of capitalism to aim for oligarchy. At least in practice.
Just like 20th century Soviet/Chinese/Cuban communism did not prevent oligarchs. Neither does the current crop of capitalism. They both - in practice- created easy path to oligarchy.
I understand your point, that’s why I consider that the state should be an independent regulator. What’s happening right now is that due to corruption the state is failing to do it so.
I’m changing the user note I added to you from “right wing nut” to “confused socialist”
Cato institute capitalism by nature tends toward maximum inequality
Exactly. It’s Cato directly that it arguing for unregulated market in an oligarchy. So OP needs to be clear who wrote the source.
And yet the United States with its unfettered capitalism has failed to be a world leader in environmentalism
That honour goes to Nordic and European social democracies
Sure you need to be sufficiently wealthy, but you also need to restrict capital so companies can not pollute, and have social policies to pay for the those solutions the market will not supply
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The US is a bad example, and still is a greater example than the communist/socialist countries provided.
These nordic countries are pretty good example of how you can have capitalism with a great welfare state, without going socialist/communist. My guess is their main difference is that they don’t allow the richer companies to lobby on politicians, or at-least not as much as the US does.
The US — poster child for capitalism, creator of regulatory capture for ultimate best capitalism — is a poor example of a capitalist country?
Capitalism + regulation + welfare is the definition of socialism
Capitalism with strong regulation is so good that the Soviet Union used it; China uses it
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Except in their special economic areas
Capitalism with strong regulation is so good that the Soviet Union used it; China uses it
Capitalism with strong regulation… the best example would be the nordic countries you believe are socialist.
Sure, I was using the examples I used to demonstrate that even revolutionary communism isn’t opposite to capitalism
