Im sorry but 12$ for a plane ticket. Anywhere. That sounds either a lie or fishy.
Maybe its 12$ and then 100 for “fees Of 70$ for any bag. Or something
Or the air company is trying to destroy trains and is flying at a loss.
The sad part is that even with the fees the plane remains cheaper than the train.
It’s real, many flights are dirt cheap, especially flights to Amsterdam via KLM from neighbouring countries. I remember waaay back in the day when I was trying to get to Russia from Ukraine to see my then online girlfriend, I had an option of going by bus directly or flying through Amsterdam for the same price but a long layover. Like, literally, across all Europe and back on a flight was the same price as a direct bus ride.
I literally bought a ticket for 10 euros everything included from Ryanair just now. Ne bags or anything though, but I’m a backpacker and it’s allowed.
Kerosene should be taxed by an EU-wide tax.
As of 2023, commercial kerosene consumption is currently tax exempt under the legislation of all member states of the European Union.
Why not rather do something to make trains more affordable? People need and want to travel, making air travel more expensive will just cause people to get stuck at home.
It’s especially odd since trains inside countries tends to be affordable (and subsidised), but internationally it can get super expensive very quickly.
While those same tracks are used for cargo, so it’s not like the whole European track network needs to be maintained just for a few passenger trains.
In France it’s pure greed. The government keeps trying to pawn off any public utility that doesn’t generate revenue since that Jupiter wannabe took office. I don’t know how politicians convinced billions of people that public utilities must be profitable…
SNCF is deeply in debt. French Train Travel is very affordable with OuiGo, TER Fares are also quite cheap with discount cards, and for young people TGV Max (79€/Month for unlimited Travel including High Speed) is also a great option. Unfortunately the 4th rail package of the EU will destroy all State Railway Operators forcing to tender out all services starting 2030 This will also lead to cuts of “unprofitable Routes” and generally lead to shitty service as the cheapest always wins. If you want an example look to German regional services which are all tendered out. Every day they are cancellations because someone became sick and they have no reserves. The same with Trains. Most of them travel with reduced capacity, because not all sets work, some are also cancelled for this reason . I really love the EU but this is some very shitty legislation. The current state where the member states could choose wether they want to liberate their rail market or not is much better
Oh, this reminds me of the UK
Price is not even the issue for me, it’s availability. I tried to book a ticket from Zurich to London for December. There are apparently not connections available anymore. I would gladly pay more than if I would be taking a plane, just give me the option…
Use thetrainline.com for international train travel. I found these for you as an example. 144€, 8 hours, change in Paris. Meanwhile, flying is <60€, under 2 hours.
I know what I would choose, haha.
Awesome thanks, yeah I can’t choose a plane if there is a reasonable train connection available. I will never set foot in a plane that is run by a company that can somehow afford < 60 euro tickets.
Edit: I see, it seems to be the date I want to travel, December 20. does only return a bus connection.
Up to you. I never understood that attitude, people act like air travel is the only one subsidized, meanwhile (at least in Germany), everything from tracks to new vehicles, tickets (like the 49€ ticket) to covering of losses is subsidized by our taxes. And they are still way too expensive.
Meanwhile, airplanes are actually shockingly efficient per kg/km travelled - the train is just even more efficient. Most of the airlines even give you an option to offset your CO² footprint for the flight. Taking the difference between train and air travel and donating it to a worthy cause would likely be the most valuable option from a world saving standpoint.
But that’s neither here nor there, I understand it’s about feeling good as much as it is about efficiency.
This is the report:
https://greenpeace.at/uploads/2023/07/report-ticket-prices-of-planes-vs-trains-in-europe.pdf
While undoubtedly the train fares are unreasonably expensive in several routes specially in UK, the comparison is mostly for longer routes like London to Barcelona or Madrid to Brussels, where you need to change several trains from different operators. Few would be willing to try such a route.
These kind of routes are not much favourable to trains and also the quoted Ryanair fare, I doubt 12.9€ is a last minute fare, it probably doesn’t include airport fees and extras you might want like a luggage and so on.
I’m looking at going from Barcelona to Paris, both plane and train has direct connections and on the dates I am considering, it’s about 50 eur for the plane and 130 eur for the train each way. Both the airport and trains station are close to me and the trains also has a security check and the queue that comes with that, so I’m still not sure what I’m going to pick.
funny, I was looking at the same connection in autumn and the price difference was similar. I have no problem with the longer trip, but the cost is prohibitive. for two people the train tickets from Germany to Paris and then onwards to Barcelona are ~700€ round trip. flights are less then 400€, and that’s a regular airline not Ryanair…
The difference will not be as big as it seems, 50 Euro is perhaps Ryanair basic fare. I am sure they will charge you for even the carry-on luggage and they fly you far away from Paris. If you go to CDG it will be around 100 euro which is still less than the train but not much more.
Milan Paris is served by TGV InOui and Trenitalia and the prices were nowhere near that different. Trenitalia is somewhere between 80-120 Euro each way which is the similar price you would pay for EasyJet on this same route. When I took this train last week (both ways) they tended to be full, you normally cannot find last minute tickets, so the demand is there it seems.
Don’t get me wrong there is a lot of room for improvement (really a lot) try to go a bit further maybe to go to Venice instead of Milan and you are looking at 150-200 Euro fare and that’s with the same operator.
I wish it made sense for me to take bus or train to visit family on the other end of Europe, but it’s both more expensive. Makes me feel half bad about a trip I should enjoy. Why is everything upside down?
This is why I’m flying to Edinburgh soon rather than taking the train (like I would prefer to). So much cheaper
I don’t think train can compete with a long distance means of transportation that is
1- equally or less time consuming.
2- works very similarly across countries.
3- only needs infrastructure at the start and end stops instead of for the whole journey.
What we need is to figure out a way to use less polluting, carbon neutral or non-polluting fuel for airplanes, and less of it with more efficient designs.
The plane is not that fast. You have to factor in travel to the airport (outside the city), check-in, security gates, boarding, baggage claim on the destination, which can add up to 3h or more per trip. With a train, you start in the city center and just hop on board.
To your last point, believe it or not, but planes are getting significantly more efficient. Huge wide-bodies like the 747 are retiring in part because airlines don’t want to lug around 4 engines, when the 787 can do the same trip with 2.
The a320 neo has a much better engine than previous generations, and same thing with the 737 max (crashing problems aside).
crashing problems aside
Ok but that caveat is doing a lot of work there
Oh don’t worry, planes crash no more than once in their lifetime…
In a comment about efficiency? No, it doesn’t.
it’s relevant. the worldwide 737-MAX fleet had very low carbon footprint for like a year or a bit more!
Right, so the 737-MAX are very fuel efficient. No argument there. But saying “the parenthetical about ignoring the crashing problems is doing a lot of work in this comment about fuel efficiency” is just nonsense.
I mean, the entire fleet was very efficient while it was grounded
Depends on when long distance starts for you. I’m very much open to take a train across Europe if it’s reasonably priced and convenient, even if it takes considerably longer. Really wouldn’t mind an overnight train either for example, if they weren’t so damn expensive (and constantly booked out).
Anything that’s less than 3-4 hours by plane is fine by me to switch to the train for 8-10 hours imo.
Agree about the long distance being subjective. I live abroad and have a job so for me it’s not an option to use 2 days of my holiday time just to travel back and forth for one visit home. So I definitely mind that it takes considerably longer.
Well 3000 km is about 2h30 by plane. A train that goes 180km/h without any stops will still take 17h. I agree all the check in and travel to the airport definitely sucks, and I’d rather board on a train any day. But even with that nuisance, a regular plane going a typical cruise speed of 900km/h will still leave trains in the dust for anything farther than say 2000 km and make it worth it.
I used to think as a child everyone in Europe is super rich. Because they always travel by planes
Die DB vereint das schlechte von Zentral- und Osteuropa, aber auch Westeuropa: Teuer UND Scheiße.
This article is a load of bullshit. They basically only compared train prices from the UK to Europe and said it was more than flying. Sure, but that’s because train prices in the UK are ridiculous, not because train prices in Europe are ridiculous. The UK is the outlier, always has been.
Taking a train in the UK, even across the UK, is sometimes more expensive than driving - it usually is when you factor in getting from a station to somewhere else. Meanwhile, taking a train within Europe is generally very affordable. The difference is the governments in the mainland actually regulate and ensure investment.
In Germany you can get a train to anywhere in the country for about €20, and children up to 14 are free. There’s also Interrail tickets you can get across Europe that cover regions or countries, when the UK was a part of this system the UK-wide ticket cost roughly the price of 3 EU countries, even though the UK is much smaller.
I’m from Germany, and none of the things you said are true. For example, to get from Aachen Central station to Hamburg Central station the cheapest option is 23,90€, but that connection is from 8pm to 3am. If you want to ride in the day, your cheapest price is the Quer-Durchs-Land-Ticket (“Cross-Country Ticket”) at 44€. But that way you are only allowed to use regional trains, which will make it a 7 hour train ride. If you want to use intercity trains (still a 5 hour ride), you will pay around 70-90€. And all of that is for 2nd class.
The age cutoff for children to travel for free is 6 years, children from 6-14 and 15-27 years travel at variously reduced prices (39€ for regional-only, 42€ for intercity).
I don’t know where you got your information, but here in Germany, we are in the same situation as the UK. And while trains in the UK may be painfully slow on cross-country travel, I have felt that they were much more comfortable to travel on, given the absolutely abysmal state of a lot of our trains.
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Dang, no wonder America decided to scrap passenger trains altogether and go all-in on planes and cars (and buses if you can’t afford either).
