Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
My son was, too. I didn’t raise him strictly (I was a hippie mother, raised in the 70s), but gradually acclimatised him through smaller interactions (small groups to larger, to regional to public), because I had that luxury. Lots of parents over the past 10 years were deprived of that, and it’s been exceptionally difficult to get a child acclimatised to an increasingly hostile world.
People have been far less patient in public – which is entirely understandable, given the circumstances – so many parents and other caregivers (teachers, counsellors, etc) who are trying their best can’t help but be defensive when they hear negativity towards children online, because I’d wager everyone encounters people who are excessively put out by the slightest transgression of a child in their proximity.
It may not be the way the majority react, nor how you react, but it happens regularly enough to become exhausting.
So, in these conversations, I feel like many people are responding to children who are clearly being publicly misparented, and then there are many parents who are thinking of the times someone overreacted to a social faux pas by their child.
I feel like people are misdirecting their anger here.
I think you’re dead on actually. The person I responded to is so defensive because they’ve probably been talked to about it before. No matter how awful it’s been I never have done that. And if they realized that they as a parent are used to the annoyance, but others aren’t, it actually takes restraint not to at least glare. So when that commenter got so pissed, I assume their child is poorly behaved enough for the parent to get told semi-often
Right, and if their child does only occasionally act out (as literally all children do at least a few times in their life), they might assume a commenter is that one guy who is overly put out over a minor social infraction, because just like you’re picturing the stand-out moments you’ve seen when it was bad, so are they. But their stand-out has been someone confronting you because your* eldest started stacking boxes in the aisle whilst you were tending to the baby for 30 seconds.
We’re all thinking of our own extremes and are kinda talking past each other. It seems that, unlike some conversations lately, everyone is kinda right, but it also seems that we need more empathy towards the fact that raising young children has been more societally difficult lately, and kids need less hostility to become emotionally healthy adults.
Thing is, I’ve never shown any hostility and I don’t see how agreeing with “it’s not my problem though” suggests I do. However someone ranting starting with “fuck off” makes me think they suck as a parent.
I show my empathy by putting up with kids everywhere I go. Parents can show their empathy by literally just not ignoring bad behavior. Which in other comments I clarified is the only thing I actually have issues with. The entire store should not be filled with shrill screams while the parent flat out ignores it for 10 minutes. Not too much to ask.
You’re reacting to the worst parenting you’ve seen in public, but they’re thinking of the worst experiences they’ve had, too – which was people overreacting to relatively small transgressions.
Everyone is talking about a completely different set of people than who they’re talking to. Both of those different sets of people are terrible: the parents who haven’t even tried to teach their children, and also the people who overreact when a child steps out of bounds. You are neither of these, and it looks like neither is your interlocutor.
I don’t know. I got your point, I’m just asserting I don’t think I gave reason for judgment (at least initially , and neither did the person she attacked) whereas that commenter came in swinging and therefore gave every reason
That’s fair. People who are actively trying to parent will naturally be a bit more defensive, tbf. They may have encountered that guy more than once just today. It’s likely to be less raw a subject for the rest of us, honestly.
Every child screams in public at some point? That’s normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.
Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.
You were not allowed to but I can guarantee that you were still screaming in public.
Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
My son was, too. I didn’t raise him strictly (I was a hippie mother, raised in the 70s), but gradually acclimatised him through smaller interactions (small groups to larger, to regional to public), because I had that luxury. Lots of parents over the past 10 years were deprived of that, and it’s been exceptionally difficult to get a child acclimatised to an increasingly hostile world.
People have been far less patient in public – which is entirely understandable, given the circumstances – so many parents and other caregivers (teachers, counsellors, etc) who are trying their best can’t help but be defensive when they hear negativity towards children online, because I’d wager everyone encounters people who are excessively put out by the slightest transgression of a child in their proximity.
It may not be the way the majority react, nor how you react, but it happens regularly enough to become exhausting.
So, in these conversations, I feel like many people are responding to children who are clearly being publicly misparented, and then there are many parents who are thinking of the times someone overreacted to a social faux pas by their child.
I feel like people are misdirecting their anger here.
I think you’re dead on actually. The person I responded to is so defensive because they’ve probably been talked to about it before. No matter how awful it’s been I never have done that. And if they realized that they as a parent are used to the annoyance, but others aren’t, it actually takes restraint not to at least glare. So when that commenter got so pissed, I assume their child is poorly behaved enough for the parent to get told semi-often
Right, and if their child does only occasionally act out (as literally all children do at least a few times in their life), they might assume a commenter is that one guy who is overly put out over a minor social infraction, because just like you’re picturing the stand-out moments you’ve seen when it was bad, so are they. But their stand-out has been someone confronting you because your* eldest started stacking boxes in the aisle whilst you were tending to the baby for 30 seconds.
We’re all thinking of our own extremes and are kinda talking past each other. It seems that, unlike some conversations lately, everyone is kinda right, but it also seems that we need more empathy towards the fact that raising young children has been more societally difficult lately, and kids need less hostility to become emotionally healthy adults.
Thing is, I’ve never shown any hostility and I don’t see how agreeing with “it’s not my problem though” suggests I do. However someone ranting starting with “fuck off” makes me think they suck as a parent.
I show my empathy by putting up with kids everywhere I go. Parents can show their empathy by literally just not ignoring bad behavior. Which in other comments I clarified is the only thing I actually have issues with. The entire store should not be filled with shrill screams while the parent flat out ignores it for 10 minutes. Not too much to ask.
Right, you haven’t. That’s my point.
You’re reacting to the worst parenting you’ve seen in public, but they’re thinking of the worst experiences they’ve had, too – which was people overreacting to relatively small transgressions.
Everyone is talking about a completely different set of people than who they’re talking to. Both of those different sets of people are terrible: the parents who haven’t even tried to teach their children, and also the people who overreact when a child steps out of bounds. You are neither of these, and it looks like neither is your interlocutor.
I don’t know. I got your point, I’m just asserting I don’t think I gave reason for judgment (at least initially , and neither did the person she attacked) whereas that commenter came in swinging and therefore gave every reason
That’s fair. People who are actively trying to parent will naturally be a bit more defensive, tbf. They may have encountered that guy more than once just today. It’s likely to be less raw a subject for the rest of us, honestly.
Every child screams in public at some point? That’s normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.
Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.