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When will the liberal party pass the electoral reform they were elected to pass?
They won’t
They will with enough pressure. This negative attitude is useless.
And that pressure comes from the citizens who never put pressure on. I live in a fascist government situation in Canada simply because I am disabled. But people like you would tell me to stop complaining that at least I have some support. I have chased my MP to no effect or response at all. I have done the same with my MLA. I have educated my fellow Canadians. I have ranted and raved for decades and protested about how we are treated as second class citizens and you all are not standing up for us. None of you. I’m purple in the face from screaming into the void.
You expect people to stand up for you? You’re delusional. My experiences at the bottom of Canadian society tell me otherwise.
Pressure as it “voting for other people” and “nationwide general strike” or pressure as in “Thoughts and prayers” online?
Because the first isn’t going to happen, as evident by this election, and the second hasn’t achieved anything so far, and will continue to achive nothing because it isn’t actually pressure.
That’s such a strawman as I have never said to “only vote.” There are many things people can do to pressure the government.
I didn’t say you said to only vote. I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.
So what do you propose we do that will convince the government to give up their power, short of voting them out or a general strike?
I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.
It worked in Quebec, the bloc supplanted the conservatives and liberals in many of their ridings. We need to have more regional parties and a larger push for proportional representation from the conservatives and liberals. Blue and Red are only so powerful thanks to our donations, volunteering and positive reinforcements. Take that away and they will be shells of their formerselves.
You do realize the block lost a third of their seats? The whole problem with the current system is that unless you can get the entirely country to simultaneously change who they back, you just further entrench whichever party is worse. Your solution boils down to, “Get people to support smaller parties instead.” That doesn’t work in a two party system, as evidenced by the current condition of our voting system, and by every other FPTP country out there.
The only way the current system changes is an organized, country-wide show of resistance that actually hurts the rich and powerful. This probably means a general strike. Unfortunately, people aren’t going to be willing to rock the boat until things start to get unlivable, and by that point extremists and grifters will be firmly entrenched and will seize power instead.
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precisely why voting is pointless
Ahh, here’s the tankie…
You’re responsible for Donald Trump getting elected because you just focused on attacking democrats relentlessly then foolishly claimed that voting is “pointless”
Get out of here with your authoritarian tendencies.
trump? i’m not even from the us, posting in a tiny ass forum.
i like how tankies are simultaneously evil and powerful to influence an election, while at the same time a puny 1% minority that does nothing. libs have to learn more before theorizing.
Its a stretch but I’m hoping with a liberal minority there is chance the NDP could advocate for electoral reform as negotiation point. Its a stretch but I feel like its the only way it could happen.
how come no one remembers that WE had a referendum for voting reform and WE voted it down? everyone keeps blaming the liberals when it was the dumb ass population who fucked that up.
“One vote never changed anything,” said ten million people.
“me reducing my carbon emissions won’t change anything” said ten million people.
80 Percent of Global CO2 Emissions Come From Just 57 Companies, Report Shows
Let’s stop blaming individuals for this.
But who else is to blame? Seriously…
Where do you think these 57 companies get their money from to continue doing their shit? By individuals buying their shit.
What do you think these 57 companies consist of? They employ hundreds of thousands of individuals. Each of which could theoretically decide not to continue with that.
Of course I realize it’s not that easy, individual situations may be complex, and that there’s different amounts of blame to go around. You’re correct, these companies have concentrated blame to them and it’d be more impactful to regulate them specifically.
But my statement is simply also true. Multiple things can be true at the same time. Multiple courses of action can be reasonable.
People need to stop buying animal products and demand our politicians invest in renewables and public transit.
Too many people have protested against bike lanes and apartment buildings when those are much better for the environment. So yeah let’s not the individuals off the hook completely.
There is no “hook” though. We shouldn’t be fighting against each other.
Every person has a different level of personal sacrifice for the greater good that they are ok with. It is completely fine to be selfish. If that means that we’re fucked as a species, then that’s what that means.
If we militantly blame people for still eating animal products for example, it’ll just create hostilities that are further entrenching the sides. Instead we need to push to compromises, everywhere. Make animal products more expensive, using the tax or whatever to offset their carbon impact. People that still want to buy it can buy it. Or say it’d be best to not eat animal products, but if that’s too hard, how about just a little less, however much is acceptable.
It’s not optimal, absolutely true, but it has a much higher chance of working.
It is completely fine to be selfish.
It’s completely legal usually…
Absconding from moral duties, completely fine?
Suppose “fine“ has to be clarified
Can you honestly say that you sacrifice everything for the environment? Have as little/positive carbon footprint as in any way possible?
I’m saying that eventually stopping to sacrifice personal benefits for the common good is fine. I.e. being selfish.
Multiple things can be true at the same time. Multiple courses of action can be reasonable.
Of course. And your original statement was only placing blame on individuals, which is the type of attitude that helps these companies get away with the all the environmental damage they cause. 80% of the cause should also be 80% of the focus.
People continue to use the big 6 banks that finance the fossil fuel industry when they could switch to credit unions instead.
Right, so the focus should be on the big 6 and how they finance the fossil fuel industry to raise awareness and encourage people to switch.
Putting the blame on the individual (you need to reduce your carbon footprint) and expecting them to research every business and product they interact with on a regular basis means
- the research won’t happen because nobody has that kind of time, and
- if they do try to do research on their own who knows if they’ll actually research their bank.
No, it was not only placing blame on individuals. That is your interpretation of it.
No, it was not only placing blame on individuals. That is your interpretation of it.
Me: let’s stop blaming individuals.
You’re immediate reply: “But who else is to blame? Seriously…”
Hard to interpret that any other way. But okay, where in your original post do you blame anyone other than individuals?
I’m Indigenous and I have family and friends who live throughout the north.
I couldn’t believe the recent Ontario election for the representative for Mushkegowuk-James Bay … the NDP candidate won it by 9 votes
And I have a ton of people in all those northern communities who all don’t vote because none of them believe that it is worth it because they are Native.
Please show them these margins. it’s crazy to me how small the number of votes are per riding and really puts everything into perspective
I’m in a riding that is consistently held by the conservatives, and not by a small amount. There are something like 40-50k votes cast in my riding and the difference between lib and conservative was about 6k.
I still go out and vote, because some day the 6k difference might be 12 individual votes…
If the conservatives win by a handful of votes, and I didn’t vote, I don’t think I could forgive myself.
I heard that there were some communities where voting closed super early. Under circumstances like that, I can sympathise with people who feel that there’s no point in voting; there were people who went out to vote but weren’t able to, and that must be so demoralising
Any time someone claims “my one vote doesn’t matter” I reply with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_close_election_results
Yes, there are a lot of elections that are decided by a very small number of votes.
As the saying goes: “The only wasted vote is the one left uncast.”
And I’ll reply with this which is .uch more likely. https://globalnews.ca/news/11130642/canada-election-2025-results-leduc-wetaskiwin/
- Wayne Gretzky
Fuck that guy
I mean I voted but I live in Alberta and don’t live in Calgary or Edmonton. Tell me my vote mattered.
Here’s a link to the results https://globalnews.ca/news/11130642/canada-election-2025-results-leduc-wetaskiwin/
That vote increases funding to the area for progressive outreach and causes. You won’t change the entire province with a wole new order but you are part of showing that Alberta isn’t a lost cause to the left.
Seriously, this shows left wing lobbiests, charities, politicians, etc. That they can do something in the province. In the end all it may mean is easier access to insulin pumps or less cuts to medical services but that definitly matters.
It’s easy to look at the big picture and grow hostile but your vote does matter.
I understand what you’re saying, but a 50 point margin is definitely in “lost cause” territory.
I do try to remind myself when seeing results like this that there are still thousands of people who aren’t inbred hicks though.
If you voted, it mattered
How many people didn’t vote in those counties? Did they not vote because they were made believe they got no voice or because they would’ve voted republican but didn’t think they were needed?
“Oh wow, a statistical golden goose! Welp, that fully justifies my beliefs surrounding this. Looks guys, this one time, voting mattered! That means it always matters! And anyone who tells you otherwise is a bad person! Shame!”
I didn’t vote for Harris or Trump
My county still went blue by thousands
My state still went red by tens of thousands
Me protest voting didn’t matter.
My vote didn’t matter.
Me protest voting didn’t matter.
It’s funny, because I’m deep in the beating heart of blood red Texas. But every time I fail to vote for a Bill White, Henry Cuellar, or Kamala Harris, I’m told it is my fault that Democrats can’t keep control of Congress, the Presidency, or the Courts.
When I ask for a candidate that isn’t shamelessly corrupt and favorable towards genocide, I’m told that I’m a purity troll who has been tricked by evil Chinese/Russian/Iranian bot farms into opposing The Most Progressive Ballot Since FDR.
After I campaign for candidates I like, I’m a do nothing heckler. After I march in rallies, I’m told I didn’t show up for minorities or women or immigrants. After I donate tens thousands of dollars to sympathetic campaigns, I’m told that there’s no place for broke loser dropouts in the party.
Can’t imagine why liberals keep losing, though. They’re such a progressive Big Tent party.
It’s been hard to stay positive. The progressive candidates collectively got less than 1% of the vote.
Those anarchists, tankies, fascists and authoritarians who claim this are just trying to sabotage democracy.
Or it’s people who feel disenfranchised.
I’m a disabled dude with a family. I live on less than half of what is considered extreme poverty for a single person in my area per year not including my wife’s income. I have no extra healthcare, dental or vision care and pay out of pocket even though I worked for ~20 years before my disability and was a part of a union. I am not disabled enough according to my government but too disabled to work according to all medical professionals I have seen, so I get no more than basic CPP. I have chronic pain and neurological damage that affects Ballance and muscle control as well as my ability to walk somewhat and do basic tasks. But I can walk and drive and from the outside look “normal” to most people.
My wife works for the federal government in a public facing seasonal position. It is a contracted position now, that used to be permanent. This avoids unions, healthcare payments, full time employment, benefits and more. Again, she works for our federal government but there is not one politician suggesting that this is no better than what private industry does to people by treating them like wage slaves.
There is no politician in this country that cares about me and my family. I have three choices on my federal ballot. The politicians would all rather I be dead. I can MAID whenever I like but I am not permitted respect or a decent life and neither are my kids. My wife doesn’t deserve a full time job or benefits that would really help pull us out of poverty even though she is highly educated in her field and uses it for her work for our government. Even if I could try to work my way out of my hole I lose all support when I hit a very low income threshold ($6900/year) and should I somehow work past that threshold by convincing a public employee to allow me, on a case by case basis, I can be assured to be watched extremely closely as if I were commiting a crime and having to report regularly not just on my taxes on a yearly basis like every other citizen.
I have spoiled every single ballot I have cast for more than a decade in every single election at every single level of politics in Canada and I get derided for it. I voted against fascism this time and held my tongue but you better believe I’m on my MP already. I’m sure my email address will be banned internally and I highly doubt my calls and emails will ever get a response.
People could give a fuck though. They prove it time and time again. Tell me again who I should vote for? And why I should give a fuck about you and your politicians? People have a lot to say but it’s all bullshit. They care about themselves.
As of 2022 there are over 320,000 people on CPP disability in the country. It has risen significantly since then. That’s certainly not 22 million but we deserve as others do.
Not voting makes it easier for politicians to ignore them.
If they feel disenfranchised, they are probably already ignored.
That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Or a pat answer to give to disenfranchised people you don’t want represented. “If we’re ignoring you it’s because you’re not involved enough!”
Those people could also set up their own regional party to get their voices better heard in parliament like the bloc have successfully done, I’m not saying to “only vote.”
There’s always some new criterion for not being ignored.
anarchists, tankies, fascists and authoritarians
Spot the odd one out!
I’ve definitely seen anarchists describe frustration with electoral politics, especially when people limit their political engagement to simply voting once every so many years. However, I’ve never seen one advocate against voting.
Anarchists are generally aware that, despite elections not being the thing that will overthrow the bourgeoisie, some parties result in less suffering for oppressed peoples than others.
There’s a long history of anarchists who oppose voting
https://libcom.org/article/why-anarchists-dont-vote-elisee-reclus
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/aotearoa-workers-solidarity-movement-why-we-don-t-vote
https://apps.lib.umich.edu/online-exhibits/exhibits/show/debatedemocracy/anarchism---anti-voting
The anarchist argument is that voting somehow endorses the state and is consent to being governed. It’s not a very good argument, but it is an argument nevertheless.
That’s not an actual argument I’ve ever heard and I’m an anarchist myself, it usually goes more like:
Voting is a waste of time especially the more disenfranchised you are, mutual aid lasts longer and does more for people around you in the short term, in the long term you can build community get organized, and bargain for more than what simply voting can get you.
Personally that’s not a bad argument, see I’m living in Israel and my town’s going through gentrification, and the state I’m living under is fascist and the fascism is so normalized, not because of people like me refusing to vote, but because of liberals who were never so different from the fascists, constantly giving them ground, always bargaining for the bare minimum.
The only people actually getting anything done that is remotely positive are activists, like the people protesting to stop the genocide, and getting involved physically with sabotaging fascist efforts to stop humanitarian aid from getting into gaza.
Or at least that’s how it was months ago, i haven’t found it in me to listen to the news on quite a while, so what do i know.
Libs will do anything they can to avoid understanding anti-electoralism
I live in Illinois. If somehow the heavens and earth move such that Illinois turned red, then there would be absolutely zero chance it would be the tipping point in the presidential election. The vast majority of people in the US live in safe states.
And for the record, I do vote in down-ballot races, the ones that actually matter, but none of you care because it’s all about genuflecting before the leader of the blue tribe. Which, frankly, just gives me more reason to refuse to.
“Democracy” doesn’t need our help to be sabotaged, it’s falling apart on it’s own. Every time someone says that the voters have to change en masse to meet the policies of politicians rather than politicians having to respond to what their constituents want, they are the ones taking the axe to democracy. Why the hell would anyone care about upholding or defending a system that we have no say in? Somehow, insisting on popular demands and trying to turn the will of the people into policies that protect the rights of the vulnerable gets translated into “trying to sabotage democracy” equating Anarchists and Marxists alike with fascists.
Yeah, there were a lot of close ones this time.
35 difference in Terrebonne riding in QC, Liberals won.
I have family in this riding so I was watching it closely. It was very nerve-racking to see how close it was. It was conservative several times while they were finishing counting all the votes.
I vote in every election but it sure as hell never feels like my vote does anything at all or is even recorded.
TBH i don’t think there’s a way to vote our way out of a lot of our issues.
If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.
~ Emma Goldman
Incidentally, a lot of US districts have made voting increasingly difficult to the point of illegality.
But I rarely see Votey types grapple with that fact. They either dismiss the disenfranchised as lazy/stupid or ignore this cohort entirely.
