- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
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The “disruptive protests are bad” people are straight garbage pieces of shit. You know what is disruptive? Blizzards in Florida, wildfires in California and Canada, and mass migrations of island people due to oceans rising. So go fuck yourselves with this “boo hoo traffic got held up a couple minutes “ bullshit you fucking pussies.
A non-disruptive protest is masturbation.
A protest is disruption.
That’s why protests in designated protest zones out of the eyelines and more importantly away from the profit operations of those being protested are an intentional and effective method of completely neutering protest.
We have protest in the US. It just doesn’t mean anything anymore.
You are not masturbating correctly.
People hate protests even though they absolutely work because those people are for the status quo. I truly believe centrists are not actually on a line in between “right” and “left,” but rather their own node so we all make a triangle. Much of what centrists believe are not anything like what the rest of us believe, but they are cowards who DESPERATELY want to be seen as the norm, as one of us by everyone (which is why they try to claim a “center” position, while the fascists and anti-fascists both recognize there is no middle ground between the two).
Centrism therefore should not be looked at as a mix of right and left, but as a mix of mainly centrist goals and thoughts. Teasing out centrism from the left will help us progress.
https://news.gallup.com/vault/246167/protests-seen-harming-civil-rights-movement-60s.aspx
Well put. The same dumbfucks who decry the visual pollution of looking at windmills but don’t realize actual smog is the alterntative.
I think the key is who it is disruptive to. Blocking traffic just pisses off the average person. The decision makers don’t care about the average person. You gotta disrupt the decision makers. But you also have to be prepared for them to fight back hard.
We need more Luigis.
our society is rapidly producing them, it seems like there’s an intent to make angrier, disaffected people even.
The average person needs to start caring too. Too many zombies out there.
Sounds great, but you might as well shout at the rain. It isn’t going to happen.
This sort of defeatist take is not helping anyone either.
I’m not defeatest. I just can’t stand focusing on impractical solutions instead of things that can make a difference.
You say it’s impractical and I say it very much is. What now?
Vote for progressive candidates (even if they are dem) in the midterms, and advocate that others do so. That’s the easy thing. Low chance of success, similar effort to claiming everyone else should care about things they don’t.
Next up, run for local office. But don’t campaign, just pay the application fee, put your name in, and send in a write up for the voter guide that says to support the real progressive candidates. Slightly more effort, but slightly more impact.
There are tons of small things you can do. Even donating $5 to a progressive candidate would be more effective than saying people should care.
And these disruptions can be more than just an inconvenience. People can lose their jobs for being late. They can miss medical appointments and procedures.
They kind of have a point about blocking roads being ineffective, but for entirely the wrong reason. Having been stuck in traffic caused by protests blocking streets several times myself, I know that for most of the drivers, it’s utterly indistinguishable from all the other traffic jams. Unless you’re right up front to see what’s causing it, it could very well just be another event at the fairgrounds, or one of the regularly-scheduled crashes.
Put another way, maybe driving is actually a protest against cars? It is pretty damn effective at blocking streets.
Except many of us who actually care about the cause say this because traffic delays and vandalizing paintings irritate the fuck out of people and set them against the cause of the protest. You can spew more profanity against for being like that if you wish, but it doesn’t change facts.
It’s like finding a way to stage a protest that just makes eggs more expensive. Yay protest! But don’t expect any good to come of it.
“Give me convenience or give me death”
If you think that food and transportation are items of convenience, you must live a privileged life indeed.
Yes I would like there to continue to be enough food grown on the land we are currently using to feed everyone. It would be more than inconvenient if the cropland turned to desert for sure.
Protest all you want. I’m not getting late to work because of you. I also care about the climate, but holding up traffic isn’t going to get me on your side
That’s because you only care about the status quo. Congrats, you’re part of the problem. Remember that if you’re ever confronted with rising flood waters with your boss saying you can’t leave. Just repeat “ I want this”
How does missing work help the climate? Genuine question, but I’ve been fired when a car broke down over the weekend, and I couldn’t get another one before Monday. I don’t see how it was better that I wound up spending the money I was saving for an electric car on an old junker so I didn’t miss rent and get evicted.
Edit: Just tell me you don’t have an answer instead of downvoting, this isn’t Reddit.
Nice, you completely misinterpreted my comment. Applaud yourself 👏👏
They didn’t.
You just didn’t like the translation of your words into their consequences.
Most Nazi civilians weren’t evil in any special unique way. They just didn’t care about any moral framework more than they cared about not having the status quo broken.
It’s an aspect of the banality of evil.
Your attitude, sadly the most common attitude, is the main driving force for the most heinous of outcomes.
Here it is being used to justify the literal end of the fucking human race and turning our planet into Venus.
Yeah bro get people who support your cause fired from their jobs so you can not actually do anything whatsoever to help your cause because you’re not doing anything to affect the actual people who are causing environmental collapse, you’re just fucking with other working class people trying to survive.
God forbid an ambulance or fire engine gets stuck there too. Or am I too much of a nazi for caring about solidarity?
Go to DC and protest the capitol steps. Block entrances to fossil fuel corpo offices. Do something actually meaningful; but you won’t because you don’t actually give as much of a fuck as you pretend you do, so you pick the lazy option and shit on people who tell you why it’s bad and pointless.
👍
🖕
edit: lmfao, that one impotent downvote.
Lost your words?
“I’m not being late for work “. The rest was to make that statement not what it was.
You muppet.
You aren’t going to join their side either way. You just care about getting to work on time. You only care about the climate as much as it affects your day to day life, so I wouldnt go around telling people I care about the climate if I was you.
Nope. Wrong again. These ad hominem attacks that assume my position do nothing to further discourse. I actively support and vote for eco-friendly parties, and would participate in protests if and only if they gained widespread traction. I’m not going to protest when most people don’t give enough of a fuck about climate. Disruptive protests will only create more dissent and worse amongst those that share the same sentiments.
The George Floyd protests would’ve never worked if they remained localized to Minnesota, were disruptive and had very few participants. It needed to be nationalized. The common people must also be united on the same goal. Most people don’t care enough about climate change yet to support disruptive protests. I’m simply trying to be practical and realise that the way most climate change activist groups are going about raising awareness isn’t working.
The JustStopOil protests have been going on for years and yet there’s been no action by any government. Wouldn’t it be smart to consider other avenues of awareness creation? A wise man once said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”.
A wise man once said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”.
Vote harder next time!
They aren’t even reading what they write 🤣
As if it’s not the people who didn’t vote that caused the problem lmao
+1
Protest all you want. I’m not getting late to work because of you
So are you gonna plow through them? Sounds like a sane response to being late for work.
And if you care about the climate I have bad news - we would already be on the same side, but you only care up to the point that it will impact you personally, and that is why you suck.
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You wish you could murder people who inconvenience you?
Removed by mod
You are a terrible person, on the inside
As we can see, on the outside too.
No, i think I don’t like to be inconvenienced that’s what.
And you think its normal to wish you could murder people without consequence?
I feel a lot of people held up in traffic by these protests have that wish. So even if not normal, it’s common.
You wish you could murder people for making you late. That tells us all everything we need to know about you and what kind of person you are.
👍
Go to anger management classes before you murder someone.
It is not acceptable to wish committing vehicular manslaughter against people who slightly annoy you.
What about Steve at the office? That guy REALLY annoys me. Is he fair game?
You are a fucking joke. Full stop.
👍
Yeah I know, God forbid anything interrupt my employers steady exploitation of me for financial gain
If they stop being exploited, they stop being able to pay their bills. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Real protest vote to fight genocide and directly cause a demonstrably worse outcome vibes with this comment.
Iirc they didn’t even block the road. They hung signs and climbed into the poles above the road. The police blocked the road. This has all the energy of the police calling a protest a riot when they were the violent ones. They escalate it, blame the protestors, and people like you eat it up.
Get fucked you self-centered dickhead. Why go to work? What are you saving money for if it’s in serious danger of burning down? Can you eat your cash if it becomes worthless?
My god, so much lack of insight and foresight.
Unhinged take what the actual fuck
Get a brain, numbnuts.
Same to you, child
You’re welcome, numbnuts.
You’re not even smart enough to reply properly lol
The take is completely hinged.
“Become homeless and starve because eventually it might happen anyway”
Why are you on an electronic device if it won’t be worth anything in q few decades? You won’t be able to eat it.
This is one of those nuanced positions that it appears Lemmy users are incapable of understanding.
It’s possible to simultaneously care about climate change and acknowledge that some protests are counter productive.
If you’d said “I don’t like to stop at the altar to pray for climate change action on my way to work because it seems pointless” that would’ve been a statement.
I think the core problem is that the majority of people just don’t care. The US just elected a president who will take no action. Protesting isn’t going to make people care.
What’re you gonna do about it then?
Little old lady spends 20 months in prison for blocking a main road and being mad at rich people.
President of the United States, insurrectionist, creep, man who suggested he’d got a Nazi to hack the elections, certified felon, spends ZERO months in prison and gets to have a party.
This is why I smoke weed.
It’s why I don’t.
Yeah. Don’t give the fascists an excuse to send you to prison for a victimless crime.
I just don’t want to be locked into a thought-spiral about how awful the world is, which is how I tend to react to weed nowadays.
On the flip side, they’ve got plenty of excuses they can use, I’mma smoke my weed, haha
I am going to jail for thought crime with Trump, weed just pauses the crippling reality around me where I can enjoy silly cat videos and video games on my off time from being an adult.
Why are there anti-weed people on Lemmy? Is weed against Chinese law? I know we have those propagandists here…
Friend, buddy, pal, I literally used to deal it. You may be smoking too much if you are managing to see a conspiracy here.
I am not anti weed.
At the same time. I don’t judge someone for their preferences and understand why they wouldn’t want to.
ALSO! Stop throwing around accusations like “chinese propagandist” please. I said nothing that could justify that. Lighten up.
Also fair. Whatever helps.
Oh, fuck off.
I apologise if the frequency of my drug use offends you.
If she had just attacked some police officer during Jan 6. she would have been free.
Instead she disrespects Big Oil that’s upholding the American core values.
/S
She’s British and this happened in GB
Ups I missed that.
Some time ago a politician in my country announced they would start treating the people who protested at highways harsher. She said “people think these people are just protestors, but they’re criminals”* and that they were “damaging the rule of law”*.
* Translated
Earlier on Tuesday, the College for Human Rights ruled that the right to demonstrate is “under serious pressure” due to the arrests of activists. They had called for the blockade of the important thoroughfare.
Yesilgöz does not respond to this criticism. She says that the Ministry of Justice and Security will look into it together with the Ministry of the Interior. The ministry is already looking into the right to demonstrate, about which reports have been published *2.
/* 2 They’re currently looking into methods to restrict the right to demonstrate.
It’s honestly really worrying how people just accept and even approve of these actions. It’s not just because people are being inconvenienced, almost everyone I spoke to never noticed it themselves and that’s honestly the scary part.
Everyone involved in her arrest and detainment is a criminal.
Anyone who blocks roads to protest is just fucking with the little people. Go block billionaires driveways or their offices, don’t bother and piss off other regular people you want on your side
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I want people to hear my valid point of view so I am going to obstruct them from carrying out everyday tasks to see if that inclines them to listen and the publicity will mark us out as reasonable people.
Edit, I undeleted the original comment otherwise unchanged for reference, it was glib but reasonable I think. I believe the woman to be acting in good faith but misled.
Protests only work if they’re disruptive. Otherwise, people just ignore them and move on.
Whenever people act like disruptive protest is such a terrible tactic, I have to wonder what they think would work instead. Like, do they think the letter writing campaigns that have gone exactly nowhere in 40 years are on the verge of a breakthrough?
Or would they prefer the environmental movement to compile an overly literal companion reader to Andreas Malm?
I just thought that disrupting the life of ordinary people often at their most busy and pressured time was not the most responsible expression of a legitimate protest and that the very irresponsibility while drawing notice might also muddy and trivialise the intended message. But that is not the reason I am replying now, just after I made the comment I saw it was drawing downvotes and that it was an annoyance to people so I deleted it. I make this reply now as the majority of its downvotes were subsequent to its removal and I would ask someone who downvoted it without reading to explain that action, because it looks like pack mentality and straight recreational bullying.
It pack mentality and left-wing echo chamberism
Yes exactly and this reply is being similarly downvoted but without any response to what I asked. The people advocating unlawful disruptive action which leads to rule by the strongest are too timid to reply alongside their anonymous downvote. How would they fair in the world they are wishing for.
What is your answer then, besides “Just don’t inconvenience me cause im more importanter!”
Disruptive protests especially when you don’t already have widespread support are dumb. The George Floyd protests only worked because there was widespread outcry throughout America. The people were already united on the same issue, and there was widespread agreement that immediate and radical change was necessary. Little to nobody gives enough of a shit about climate change at the moment to actually do anything about it, so protests only end up pushing away people that might be on your side.
The move should be to first garner massive and widespread support before being disruptive. It’s like attempting a socialist revolution with a tiny army. You lose!
Okay well at its peak 60% of americans supported BLM while right now 70% of americans support climate change science.
So what’s your next bullshit reason youll hedge this opinion on?
Edit: this climate protest was in Britain, where support for climate change science is higher.
Meh, at least they care about something and they’re willing to suffer the consequences to get the message out. I hope I have that much passion in my late 70s; it seems like most people don’t have any passion at all.
You talk in this way about disruption because you do not know what it can become. If you allow this sort of disruptive behaviour then by your own admittance I can come and disrupt your family to any extent I choose if I have unilaterally arrived at some higher rationale for it in my mind. Understand those laws and societal pressures that inhibit such disruption are there for a reason and if you get rid of them be sure you can stand up against the gale that will blow across the country.
by your own admittance I can come and disrupt your family to any extent I choose
I’m pretty sure protests, disruptive as they can be, are very different than personally attacking or otherwise bothering an individual and their family.
That’s some crazy “logic” you’re working with there.
She was laying in the road impeding traffic, what about the individual child alone at the school gates because their parent is unable to reach them. It is you that is using selective logic, if you allow any unlawful act you allow them all.
What about all the people that die from climate change? The food stolen from communities cause the water is polluted from fracking? The children who can’t go outside and jump in puddles cause of toxic rain. What about the loss of animal lives cause the air is too toxic? What about all the terrible things and death that follow the big polluters as they go?
All that’s allowed though, right? Cause the police say it’s ok. And since the law doesn’t stop them, all those deaths and destroyed land are fine according to you. Just as long as you can make it to school, right?
The woman in the article is from England and I am too and I can not argue this anymore because the thread is overly replied to by American liberals who are just so universally indoctrinated by corporations to work against themselves. Moving towards renewable energy is probably the noblest cause of the modern world but these protest groups are corporate guided to nullify themselves and make the public see their views as crackpot. Do you think the corporations became as powerful as they are by sitting in the fucking road. No they marshalled their powers and lobbied governments. That is how change is effected by law, to implement unlawful means is to invite chaos which makes all your effort impotent. It would be remarkably easy and inexpensive to switch over almost entirely to renewables and the oil industry knows it so it makes you look like clowns, so no one listens to you. And you swallow it completely and put on your red noses and dance around for them.
Everything you want to happen continually gets stopped by said polluters. The nice way has been tried over and over. But those don’t get talked about. But because some people decided to just sit in the road, more people are talking about it.
Sitting in the road isn’t done to get results. It’s done to get people to talk about what is happening as they won’t and haven’t otherwise.
I don’t know if it’s different in the UK, but in the US, no child is ever left alone. There’s always at least one staff member there, and they don’t leave until the last kid is picked up, no matter how long it takes.
Why do you allow corporations to keep polluting the world? If you allow that sort of behavior then by your own admittance I can come and build a coal plant in your living room.
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Corporations are acting within the law, admittedly that law might not be fit for purpose but it is still the law. The disruption is unlawful and a different category of thing, you can not allow some unlawful acts and frown on others.
Laws are man-made. Intentionally created to benefit the wealthy regardless of consequences. Facts about climate change have been around for decades but the laws haven’t changed. The only way to make change is to be disruptive otherwise the only other option is removing the blight from the planet which most people don’t want to participate in. I’d much rather people make the right choices than force me to protest or kill people who refuse to change in the face of facts.
Might doesn’t make right, no, but what exactly do you think rule of law is when it doesn’t represent the will or the welfare of the people? The people you’re complaining about carried signs and disrupted traffic. The people who stopped them were armed and had the force of the law behind their actions.
They are protesting climate change caused by oil use by blocking a bunch of people burning oil in their cars. Sounds like the group of people that need to hear the message no? Those protestors and you are the same, stop putting them into some sort of “unreasonable person” group.
