Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I’ve heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I’ve had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there’s something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more “it is the way it is” attitude. I’ve heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less “hate for hate’s sake” but instead “it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct”. Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they’re racist.
I’ve heard Europeans call Turks ‘filthy’ and ‘roaches’ and Africans ‘monkeys’. And don’t get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don’t think there’s a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Making sure I’m reading this right…I know a guy who claims he isn’t sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren’t as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn’t sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you’re saying?
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
And even then the European countries that feel they’re ahead of the rest tackling racism it’s usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn’t have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
Very true
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Europeans are just as susceptible to racism as Americans.
There was an Old sub reddit of people from the Balkans shitting on everyone.
Until a westoid posted and they all piled on them.
Their racism puts ours to shame. Like an old wine. They have cultivated their strain of racism since before America was a thought.
Can’t compete lol
Westoid
God I miss this level of Shitposting
No shit,
HitlerSherlock. ;)That’s elementary, my dear
ChurchillWatson.
Yep. I thought I knew about racism, and then I read some comments on some hearts of iron subreddit about Romani.
I’ve seen white europeans be like “I’ve never encountered any racism in europe!” Well that is because you are white
White doesn’t really have the same connotations in europe. There’s sadly plenty of racism, but the skin tone isn’t the main discriminator.
This. So many Europeans act with superiority because “at least we don’t shoot kill them” when looking at US police brutality, but e.g. we ignore how those cops in US mostly use Glocks made in Austria, making us part of the problem (and making a profit out of it). Or if we look at the deaths numbers, we ignore the many deaths the “protection” of our borders cause.
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yall need to get off the high horse and take a joke sometimes. you terrorized the entire world via colonization for hundreds of years through modern day, if people harmlessly stereotype the german or french, make fun of british people, or tease the dutch language, yall can handle it
for context, im american. we get bullied all the time, and while not all americans are fat and stupid, the combination of that many are and that we’ve terrorized the world plenty make me think a lil teasing is fair
Yes it’s perfectly fair and most of us don’t mind.
I think the issue, especially on Reddit, was the over-representation of US Americans compared to the other countries.
It gets old quite fast to get called a “surrender monkey” or a Nazi on a regular basis in a space where most of the audience is on the other side and I’m not even French or German.
On Lemmy it’s probably a bit more balanced.
I guess let’s see what happens with the Germany elections in February because that nazi line may start to ring true.
Does the Trump election gives everyone the right to call all US citizens convicted felons?
Certainly gives everyone the right to call us a country of idiots.
Sounds derogatory and xenophobic
Just opened a thread on !europe@feddit.org about that, the polls look okay. The non far-right parties should be able to create a coalition.
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don’t want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
completely abandon you
You write “attack you for water/oil” weird. Or did I write the quiet-part worst case out loud?
i dont get this comment, at the hypothetical best case scenario wouldnt abandoning be “better” than attacked for oil? therefore attacked for oil not being the best case scenario?
Unlikely. The cost/benefit doesn’t work for an assault on the EU. Most countries in the EU have to import oil and gas (Norway being a notable exception), which is why cutting off gas from Russia has been such a big deal. The cost of invading wouldn’t be offset by the oil gains unless oil got really scarce. A smarter move–if we had a president that didn’t give a fuck about our European allies–would be abandoning NATO, stop selling arms to EU members, and then buy oil and gas from Russia at a discount while Russia invades EU countries. (If, say, China didn’t beat this entirely hypothetical US president to the punch.) As far as water goes, it would be cheaper to built massive desalination plants than it would be to move water by supertanker.
'Course, climate change is going to render most of this moot in 50 years or so.
Europe has very little in the way of oil reserves. Norway has the most at 7 billion barrels. Greenland has 18. Saudi Arabia 267 billion. Venezuela 300 billion. If I was Venezuelan I’d be sweating pretty hard right now.
Venezuelan oil is “dirty” IIRC. Apparently it’s good for bunker fuel (imagine the dirtiest sludge ever used for pushing giant ships around the ocean and you’ve got a good idea of bunker fuel), but requires significantly more refining than Saudi or US crude oil. So yay for Venezuela, but also the US would rather just replace the government with the help of that three-letter agency that shall not be named and deal with someone who went to an Ivy but is “Venezuelan enough”.
The US has ever been a fickle bed fellow.
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren’t ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on…
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
at least the fragmented markets, limited venture capital and closed-mindedness of established compagnies are relatively well known and recognised, wouldn’t say Europeans aren’t ready to hear it
I was actually thinking the first two were the more detrimental, and are the reason behind lack of VC and closed minded companies. The fragmented markets is irritating, but overcomeable.
yeah I think I’d agree with that, hut I’m risk-averse myself so can’t go pointing blame at others
The opposite could maybe be said of the US: due to our crazy-pants lack of financial security, people are willing to do risky things, which, when successful, can drive innovation. I grew up in this culture, so it doesn’t make me uncomfortable, but understand it isn’t for everyone.
regulatory environments
Regulations are written in the blood of the victims.
And other regulations are written by the lobbyists of big companies.
Here in Germany we have so many regulations that don’t help anyone, except big companies who can circumvent or deal with them.
I don’t want to reduce environmental or worker protection, but we need to simplify a lot of regulations so that the time to do the paperwork is reduced, one of the solutions should be good digitalisation.
Some are, sure. I think most on Lemmy support those kinds. While I enjoy the effects, USB-C mandates aren’t written in blood, and I suspect the majority of regulations are of that variety.
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
Ain’t no way you gonna put all of Europe into that statement. You do understand that each country have their own system, policies and regulatory laws?
The problem here is that what you’re saying is maybe true for a handful of countries while completely false and inaccurate for a handful of others.
We’re not one single entity. Your statement is just not accurate as a whole.
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with “Good riddance”.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe. The new world cannot hold a candle to you.
Here is a quick example. Netflix released a Norwegian movie called “Christmas as Usual” (translated). It essentially takes the concept of the American 1967 film “Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner”, moves it to Norway and gives it a holiday twist. According to Netflix, this 2023 film was in the Top 10 in thirty countries. How? How is a movie concept from America’s peak civil rights battles era working for you in 2023?
My wife is European and my largest clients are European with European staff and the abundance of casual racism is hard for myself and my staff to handle. Don’t get me started on my family in-law.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Agreed. We have been sold xenophobia by our politicians and media for longer than America has existed.
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe.
Oh damn it’s all the way to cringe? Now that’s serious lol
Rapidly approaching can’t even status
Wikipedia describes the origin different, so maybe the parallels were not intended:
The film is based on the true story of Holmsen’s sister, a Norwegian, and her relationship with an Indian, whom she brings home for Christmas Eve. The film was released to negative reviews.
You misunderstand. I don’t mean that it was a remake, just that it was the same concept. I think the term is “trope”.
The fact that the Norwegian film is based on a true story just makes it all so much worse.
What does the movie have to do with anything? Your in-law?
Europeans are really fucking racist. Asians and Jews are cool and yet yall are really weird about them. and don’t get me started on how badly Islam is vilified…
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The Irish are cool most everywhere tho.
Lol, get the Irish started on the Travelers, and it’ll come out for them, too. The amount of times I hear “They’re knackers, they’re just scumbags,” or similar when one of them shows up was pretty surprising, initially.
If you want to hear a bigoted rant, get a French person talking about the Spanish.
Ask them about the English
No way, lol! I always make it very clear, je viens de nouvelle zelande. And I’m not still upset about that terrorist attack by your spies…
Now that’s news, I don’t think I ever heard something bad about the spanish from a fellow french
I’ve heard it a few times, from young and old, took me back I must say. A lot of it was when I was making a day trip from Biarritz to Bilbao, by train and bus. Yikes, I thought you guys got along ok! Apparently not.
Maybe when nearing the border it gets shittier
Asians are racist af even against other Asians
And that justifies anything?
Asians are cool
and racist
damn you got upset at me saying Asians are cool? what a clown
cool you can post that in the next thread about things the sinophere isn’t ready to hear
Also “Gypsies.” Europeans aren’t fans.
That always blows my mind. They get more hate than the jews even from some of the most tolerant Europeans.
Nobody is “weird” about Asians or Jews where I live, that I know of. I’m even half west-Asian myself. Nobody had been weird about it to me, ever. I was always met with positivity regarding my heritage. Surprised to see you say this, to be honest.
middle eastern person says on internet that they haven’t experienced racism, must mean there’s no racism
Not what I wrote at all if you pay close attention but okay.
It’s true. I would extend this to the world, though. The world is generally fucking racist
You seriously never met a racist Asian?
are you stupid? what makes you think i said that
You called out one group for being racist and said another was cool as if they are not also really racist
Dude… Have you met Asian & Jewish people?? They’re racist as f#*k 🤷🏽♀️ What I’m saying is: Racism is everywhere.
Edit: Added the end bit.
what makes you think i said otherwise?
Islam is a religion, not a race. It’s a set of ideas. I don’t think attacking the religion is morally wrong, as long as you don’t attack the races that commonly practice it.
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It’s not very heavy, but it’s there, even among some of the best people I know
I have a formal sense of arrogance, thank you.
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I don’t what the commenter is referring to specifically, but I encountered it as a young Australian working as a farm labourer. There were a couple of Germans working on the farm who looked down on me for having never travelled to Europe, and not being fluent in a second european language. The difference is that I was working for a living, and didn’t have the money for travel. They were just working there as an experience while travelling overseas. As an older person, I now see that as a class issue, but at the time I got the impression that Europeans were snobby. I suspect they just came from wealthier backgrounds.
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Yeah that’s a fair point. We make generalisations about people from other countries, but they’re not all the same. Later in life I lived in Germany while I was pursuing my engineering career, and felt more affinity with the engineers of similar background to myself than I do for rich people in my own country. Growing up in the 21st century in western countries somewhat blinds you to class awareness because the media and education system doesn’t discuss it but I feel that is starting to change now as online interaction breaks down those legacy barriers.
Smoking kills.
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It’s illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
Just came back from France it’s out of control there seemingly.
Why wouldn’t Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we’ve been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70’s
French food is wildly overrated, as is Paris.
What the french DID for food historically cannot be understated, but times change.
France, Germany, and Austria all have a military-industrial complex problem. MIL money might not dominate their politics the same way as the US, but there is a problem there.
Even with their post-WW2 defensive militaries, Germany and Austria are perfectly ready to sell military hardware to anyone with the cash. H&K, Glock, and Steyr all hail from those two.
France sold off the Exocet anti-ship missile to just about anyone. As far as I can tell, it has only been fired in anger at the boats of other NATO members. Thanks, France!
Not even close to what the US does. Far from it. The US military budget is larger than most other countries overall budget.
Nice whataboutism you got there
Tons of tu quoque replies in the whole thread, which tends to prove OP’s title. Yes, we’re aware America does these things turbocharged. The whole point is that EU nations do all sorts of shit, too, but it isn’t scrutinized because America does it worse.
And yet, giving arms to Ukraine is somehow a struggle.
GDPR is great, but we all hate cookie banners
Honestly, they’ve basically shitted on the intent of the GDPR last year when they started allowing sites to block users who did not choose to allow personalized ads as long as they had a “paid” alternative very few people are actually going to use. It was a perversion of what Google did, which was entirely different since they still allowed people to disable personalized ads and accept generic ads instead.
There’s a firefox extension I still don’t care about cookies that deals with these.
Since firefox rolled out total cookie protection the risks to privacy are minimal anyway.
I’m applying for work on a lot of websites and I do use that extension. It works maybe 30% of the time. Less annoying, but still super annoying.
European car manufacturers largely suck ass, I’d rather buy a Hyundai or a damn Nissan than some French or German piece of crap.
I am guessing you are from America. I am aware of the figures in terms of reliability, and Japanese manufacturers do a clean sweep in that area, and have done for decades. If that is your only metric, then you may be correct. German cars require religiously regular servicing, and will go wrong if this doesn’t happen fastidiously.
The US market get given a different range from many manufacturers. The VW range is objectively quite toned down in style and build quality. I presume because they would piss all over the domestic market if they didn’t.
Get into a hyundai or a Nissan in Europe and the difference in build quality, materials, aesthetic design and textures are worlds apart.
I have had a range of cars over the 30 years I have been driving, and this is my experience in the UK.
When you are forced to buy a car just to maintain a job or not be run over on your way to get groceries on the transportation “infrastructure” provided by American cities, reliability for a car does make the top of the list.
I did not see it that way. When you say it like that I guess that would change my perspective a little too.
Wish I could update my 10yo vw golf (which has served me very well) for something not electric. I know, I know, but I’m renting a flat, with a parking space, and only way to charge an electric would be on the street overnight, which is very inconvenient as well as damaging
Edit: but what I meant is you don’t know what you’re talking about
Great, go do the brakes with standard tools, oh wait, you have to use a special “triple square” tool instead of having a standard hex bolt like every other car. And on and on with the bullshit.
It takes me places though. I’m not a mechanic 🤷♂️
It still increases the cost of ownership and issues with reliability.
I’d buy a European car before a Hyundai/Kia.
Europeans use cars from all car manufacturers. Hardly seen are Chinese brands.
Soooo, yah know.
That Europe is not ready for many future challenges.
For example?
Extraterrestrial warfare!
According to movies the aliens always attack the US anyway so I don’t see a problem.
Refugee crisises far larger than the ones that have been tearing you apart for the last 15 years
The inability to function under duress would be one
