I am fairly sure that I am being laid off with other Sr. Engineers tomorrow and need some ideas. Basically, I saw a calendar mistake by HR, so oops!
Meh. It’s gonna suck for a bit, but whatevers. Life is more important than a shit job. :)
There’s no point in doing anything but being polite and "professional"1 and doing so gives you the most leverage. If nothing else you can try to negotiate a higher severance. But it also potentially enables the best kind of “revenge”.
Like the time I was laid off and instructed to revoke my and my team’s access to systems. Yes sir… right away sir. Only the bean counters never verified that there was somebody left in the hand-off plan who could access everything.
Github admin? Not anymore. AWS root account? Who knows?
Honestly the fallout from that, including frantic begging emails for passwords about a month later, was far more entertaining than anything I could have said at the time. Best of all, the head bean counter got fired over it.
And because I was completely “professional” my boss there was super supportive and helped me get my next gig. Still checks in on me once in a while.
1 People often confuse playing the game to believing in it. Use it to your advantage.
I heard the rumored date of layoff and booked a surgery I needed for that morning 8am. I got 2 more weeks / another paycheck because they can’t lay you off when you’re on medical leave. Everyone else was let go that morning. I also did it because I was going to lose my insurance (shit American healthcare system)
I was in such situation recently and I dealt with it like an adult rather than petty teenager. Don’t burn your bridges.
My last time getting laid off, I had people loyal to me tell me well in advance so I was prepared.
You don’t end up the kind of person who has people loyal to them if you do wacky, zany hijinks and make everything about yourself, even when it objectively is about you. Don’t make scenes, don’t be dramatic, just have some questions ready about severance and what benefits are available to you.
This will pay off a lot when you go to apply for a new job and they want to talk to the people who you worked for.
Depends on whether there are bridges to burn in the first place.
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It depends. If there is any money on the line or don’t want to burn bridges then I’d do the smart thing, whatever that is. Otherwise I’d just skip it.
Yeah as much as I’ve fantasized about going nuclear on past employers (or more recently, when firing a client), it just doesn’t bring any good besides a fleeting moment of feeling superior. It’s not worth it, be the bigger person and keep it professional.
Always skip the exit interview if you can. It doesn’t help you or your former coworkers. It’s just an HR box-checking exercise.
Exit interviews aren’t box checking exercises, they exist to give the company a heads up if the employee seems like they’re disgruntled and might try to sue. Always skip them, it only benefits the company that laid you off, nobody else.
Exit inerviews can be valuable and beneficial if the exit is on good terms all around.
I left my last job for a better-paying position elsewhere, but I still loved my old job and coworkers. It’s still the best job I ever had.
I couldn’t pass up a 50% raise and they couldn’t match it. No hard feelings or bruised egos. It’s just how things work out.
Having an honest conversation with HR about what worked and didn’t from an employee perspective with zero stakes for either of us was productive and informative.
thank you. Im all for sticking it to employers, but sharing feedback with a place you left on good terms from seems like a great way to maintain professional relationships. Also helps your old coworkers out.
Bad Jobs and Bad Employers Excluded obvi
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Fair enough, but I think it really just depends on how you look at it. From my POV it’s just a box-checking exercise in the vast majority of cases, and a waste of your time (if you’re the one quitting). But you’re right, employers are super paranoid about this kind of thing (even though they have most of the power). If it is one of those disgruntled-gonna-sue people then you are right, it’s something they need to try to get out in front of.
Does it help your co workers?
If you got fired, no, probably not.
But if you quit then you can leave them a few clues as to why you’re leaving and how they might avoid losing more staff. That can help the people you left behind.
But if you quit then you can leave them a few clues as to why you’re leaving and how they might avoid losing more staff.
The reason I’m quitting is because they didn’t pick up the clues that I was looking to leave, and I don’t want to help them avoid losing more staff because of it. The people I left behind should take the hint if they were smart.
Just because I might be leaving doesn’t mean I want it keeping being a sucky workplace. Ideally I’d move on to something better for me, and people left behind might get an improvement as well.
Well sure, because they don’t do exit interviews for people who got fired.
I know it can feel good to speak your mind, and in an ideal world it would make some impact. It should make some impact. They should listen to people who leave. But they don’t. Because it’s not the purpose of the exercise. They don’t really care about your feedback. They care about the optics only. Remember HR is there to protect the company, not advocate for workers.
By all means if you want to waste your time go ahead and do an exit interview. There’s not much risk or harm in doing one (unless you make a complete ass out of yourself). But it’s really just there to prop up the thin veneer that HR and the corporate lawyers want businesses to hide behind.
Some companies in my experience do do exit interviews for people who are fired. This makes more sense when you realize exit interviews are mostly to give the company a heads up if they think you might try to sue them.
That makes sense. Never heard of it, but I believe you.
At I place I worked they had a few useful people leave in a short time span. All left amicably. They took feedback from the exit interviews on board, and now they are redoing a bunch of the procedures to try and improve the way the workplace functions.
Keeping more people from quitting is helping the company.
OK, that’s good to hear. I think the situation sounds a little bit unique, but not all companies are incapable of learning.
- Finish my ticket.
- Submit the PR.
- Log out.
- Mail back the laptop.
- Block and delete contacts.
Come in sharply dressed with a top hat, cane, and unbreakable smirk
It’s going to be over Zoom, so it would be missing the full effect. Still, I might be able to slap an outfit together and even 3D print a monocle…
Hey, look at the bright side, now you can be fired in paris! I would wait for some more ideas before picking this one though, it’s rather uninspired
Since it is zoom you can focus all your energy from the waist up!
Something something cat filter https://youtu.be/lGOofzZOyl8?feature=shared
So I did the tuxedo thing when I left a job. Security wanted photos.
I told security that there are only two ways to leave if you know it’s going to be your last day: Head held high and dressed to the nines, or carried out by as many security guards as possible.
They thanked me for choosing the former.
Advice I have heard is decline an exit interview, because those are for the company’s benefit and not yours.
Or say it’s about money to give your coworkers a hand.
If you’re being laid off I don’t know if that works.
It is my understanding that they’re going to try to get you to say something on the record or worse sign something they can deny your legal rights over.
Sign something, yes. The severance package. Don’t sign it, you don’t get the money.
Just sign it and do it anyway. Teledyne for example wouldn’t pay me a package unless I agreed to never bash them on social media. Never for example call them a crooked tax dodge or worthless parasites that liquidate smaller firms. Or so incompetent I am almost convinced they might be a front of some foreign government to weaken the technology of the US as a whole.
Ah… I did miss the part about the scenario being a layoff. I agree - Not that useful in that case.
It is my understanding that they’re going to try to get you to say something on the record or worse sign something they can deny your legal rights over.
It depends on where you live. Where I live, if they get you to sign it on the spot it’s very likely unenforceable as you need time to have legal documents reviewed so you aren’t just blindly signing your rights away.
Bring a lawyer to the meeting, just for fun. Let the hr person stew a bit. Ideally you will be offered a severance package, might as well have the lawyer check it out.
I know this isn’t the “fun” answer, but I wouldn’t. I’m a manager, and I’ve been on the other side of that situation too many times. I’ve never met a manager who wants to do it - we’d all rather have enough work for everyone. It sucks but far the most for the person being laid off, but it’s a shitty time for everyone.
Plus I’ve also hired back good employees when work picked back up down the road, so there’s the bridge burning aspect to consider.
It might be just a little bit more shitty to be laid off and have finances jeopardized than to fire someone. I don’t know the market you’re in but I’d never stoop so low to come back to a place that laid me off earlier, I’d really have to be desperate.
I also don’t accept counter offers after I turn in my resignation.
The last time I got laid off, that morning I had sent a PTO request to my boss for a family trip the following month.
I got called into said boss’ office for the afternoon meeting letting me know I was being laid off, which I had not been expecting at all. I was given the paperwork to sign, etc. and mostly silently acknowledged everything that was going on. When the boss finally asked if I had any further questions at the end of the meeting, I deadpanned “so, you’ve approved my request to not come in on _____ days next month?”
I’d just play my steam deck for the entire shift up to and including the exit interview
Don’t go? I mean, you’re being fired, what’s the worst that can happen so just don’t go. Go for a walk in the woods or mountains while the company is paying you…
The worst that can happen is that your severance package is dependent on attending the exit interview.
Is that legally allowed. Reminds me of that NFL video of get saying “I’m only here so I get fined” https://youtu.be/rmABbHSOTqQ?si=7GseAxob1CPn2d5P
There is no requirement to provide severance at all in the US.
Bit of you have severence in your contract can they restrict it to going to exit interview?
Option 1: Be professional and polite.
Option 2: Scream Leeroy Jenkins and run through the door in the middle of it.
1/2 depends on how probable it is for you to need them in the future.
