I’m shocked more people aren’t already better prepared for this, but it’s actually the same thing we should be doing now, and continue to do if Biden actually wins:
Organize locally. Get hyperlocal. Organize your city, neighbors, block, building, workplace, and friend group. Establish mutual aid networks, take back city councils, county boards, and school boards from the stewards of landlords and big employers.
Establish protection for those who need it, and plant the crop of future national leaders who will do the long overdue work of putting government to work for the masses. Make it harder for any president or governor to exercise state violence by getting our people in prosecutors offices and judgeships.
The Democrats are not going to save us. Biden is just planning to go down with the ship. Absolutely vote for the lesser of two evils if you live somewhere where your vote matters, but recognize that the Democratic party is not an ally to the antifascist movement, because combating fascism conflicts with the interests of capital.
That can change, but until it does, don’t put faith in them. Anything positive they do will be because power-players were replaced. And that starts in your own neighborhood.
Edit: Since this has been well received, I want to say a quick word on third parties: don’t be afraid of them.
Without getting into a lot of details, there are a lot of myths about the risks that third parties present, but before we parrot all of that, we should just acknowledge that there is no harm in listening to their platforms. It doesn’t make you a kook to hear ideas that often get suppressed by the mainstream, or to use third parties as a way to network and meet people. I think Jill Stein has a lot of useful things to say, and if a pollster asks me, I will gladly try to bump her numbers up so that she is harder to ignore. Don’t be afraid to do that.
This is good, and I’m piggybacking so I can add on:
Get a passport, make friends in another country.
Vote to slow them down, yell at anyone who tries to say that it’s better to not vote or that Trump would be better for Palestinians.
If you want to engage in electoral reform, you need to start years in advance.
If you live in Texas: Vote for Biden and encourage GOP voters to not vote for Trump. If you’re in a place with lots of GOP weirdos, try publicly and loudly watch his rallies at 1.5x speed; I’ve heard it breaks the spell b/c his cadence gets disrupted. If Texas goes blue, Biden wins and all the DNC voters suddenly know they can win, making it immediately more likely.
If all else fails, remember someone might [Comment Cannot Legally Be Finished], which would solve multiple problems.
Texas was won by fewer than 633k votes. Considering Trump’s popularity I’d say it’s ripe for flipping but we can’t lay down on the job. Also the GOP policies are pushing out liberals and people that are vulnerable (LGBTQ+ and families with LGBTQ+ kids) so the window is closing.
I believe this so strongly!!! Everywhere i go i beg people to vote. It was really only a few percentage points. We don’t even have to flip people; just get the non-voters to go to the polls.
Get a passport, make friends in another country.
Think it’s worth mentioning that U.S. politics sets the tone of politics in a lot of the west. When Trump won, the alt-right parties in more or less all of Europe grew significantly. Here in Sweden over the span of the almost 8 years since, our nazi party grew from a smaller party that the right wingers argued whether or not they should collaborate with in order to create a right-wing coalition and win majority, to the second largest party in Sweden.
Here in 2016 South Africa our online media spaces lit up like a fucking Christmas tree with all the white supremacists coming out of the woodwork to celebrate Trump’s win. Since then, the second-largest of our (so-called) “opposition” parties - a party that can pretty much be described as the party of white liberalism - has dumped any black people they had in senior positions and began using GOP-esqe dog-whistling. All our parties - pretty much the entire formal political establishment - has been very receptive to violent, USian-style anti-immigrant narratives.
So yeah… you can flee the US - but you can’t really escape US politics.
I’m not even a little bit surprised, sadly.
Last election we had here (2022) surveillance and stop and frisk were decently big talking points. Even the supposed Liberals are like “uwu so sad privacy is dying we have to be careful but
big brother needs to sees youwe nweed to be hawd on cwime!1!” I think the only party that’s not OK with it is the leftists.surveillance and stop and frisk
Lol! That reminds me… about three years ago I was notified of a “town meeting to discuss local problems” held at a local school here in middle-of-nowhere South Africa. It turns out it was just a shady PR attempt by the local branch of the “white liberal” party I described above (the so-called “Democratic Alliance”), and the suit there doesn’t talk about our decrepit and failing water, electricity and sewage infrastructure or the fact that this mining town is being economically extinguished by privatized interests… instead, the only order of business was to brag about how they had set up surveillance in our main streets and handing off the data to the piggy for free.
I feel like strangling that particular suit every damn time I lay eyes on him.
I still don’t quite get how these people make sense of the world. We recently had a big reveal that our nazi party is using “anonymous social media accounts” to try and influence popular opinion. They claim that they don’t, and that the accounts aren’t affiliated with the party, but there was a whole report on the thing and it’s landed them in some hot water. The people voting for them are pretty much unfazed but the right-block alliance overall has taken quite a hit to their public support.
One of the things these people who supposedly really love Sweden discussed, was how they could perhaps create some sort of campaign website to try and incide violence among migrants, and possibly incite terror attacks. Like, how do you reconcile your “patriotism and love for your country” with wanting people to perform terror attacks?
Were I to play devil’s advocate I’d say that it’s possible that they were just shooting the shit, but even then? Isn’t it a bit over the top? As a gay guy I’m not joking about conversion therapy or forcible sterilisations.
was how they could perhaps create some sort of campaign website to try and incide violence among migrants,
We had that exact thing here in South Africa in the late 80s and early 90s - the only difference was that it was actually enabled by the Apartheid-state through their terrorist proxies (ie, mainly the South African Police). When the anti-Apartheid groups didn’t act “terroristic” enough for their taste, they just did it themselves and used the media to create a narrative of “black-on-black violence” to try and destabilize the country.
Like, how do you reconcile your “patriotism and love for your country” with wanting people to perform terror attacks?
They “love” their countries in the same way that a rapist “loves” his victims - the feel themselves entitled to it and deserving of holding the power of life and death over it. They do not actually care about the real people living in Sweden in any way whatsoever. That’s pretty much standard fare when it comes to far right-wing ideology no matter what part of the world you find them in.
The reason they want to “incite” (so-called) “terror attacks” among migrants they see as not “white,” “Swedish” or “Nordic” enough is two-fold.
Firstly, they want the Swedish people to see these migrants the way they see them - as a (supposedly) bloodthirsty and rapacious “other.” Not much different from the way the Nazis portrayed the “Jewish-Bolshevik hordes” before and during WW2. A (supposed) “terror attack” that can be blamed on the “other” will essentially result in the media performing this function for them.
Secondly, they want an atmosphere of panic - such as existed right after 9/11 in the US. They know that such a state of things will allow their ideology to suddenly seem “relevant” in the same way that militarism suddenly became standard fare in the US afterwards.
You. I like you.
Just be careful you dont get "Boeing"ed.
I don’t think you can state the plan legally
sic semper tyrannus
…tyrannis
Though you might have thought of Darth Tyranus. Which is fine.
You and I both know I was thinking of Tyrannosaurus Rex, but okay.
If I end up on try that jury, not guilty.
Jury nullification goes brrrrrrrrrrrrr
Tree of liberty is gettin’ mighty thirsty.
Oh man. I’m pretty non-violent, but Nov 2016, when my adult kids called me in tears, i had ideas swirling.
Keep doing what I have been doing - dragging MAGA fence sitters back from the brink one by one. The ones who have adopted Trumpism as their religion are too far gone. But there are a lot who just need to be taken by the hand and shown a better path.
When you see MAGA BS, challenge it with well-reasoned arguments. The object really isn’t to change the mind of the poster. It’s to prevent them from changing the minds of others.
Yeah, there’s a huge difference in tactics depending on whether you’re trying to comvince the person you’re arguing with, or the audience.
The latter is soo much easier - often it’s enough to back them into a corner where they out themselves as wrong whatever they say, and they’ll quickly descend into a ball of rage.
Making someone descend into a ball of rage is now how you get them off the fence.
Can you please give an example of a well reasoned argument that’s relevant here?
I’m not sure of the relationship of reason to people that aggressively disregard objective fact and fluidly move the goalpost of their burden of proof.
Look up how to debate. Success is not measured by how bad you make the opponent look. That may work on one person, but you have to repeat it for every person who advances the same argument. Instead, take apart their argument, reveal underlying motives, expose untruths with irrefutable documentation, uncover false logic and bad assumptions, and respond without attacking the messenger.
For instance, “The economy is terrible! Everything is so expensive.” Well, stuff -is- expensive. But is the economy really the reason behind it? The US stock indexes are at record highs. Most companies have been beating the expected earnings per share. Isn’t it more likely that things are expensive because companies are taking more profit to give to their shareholders? Which candidate do you believe is more inclined to change that?
The object is not to defeat the opponent. It’s to prevent others from being convinced by their arguments.
I’m torn on this. I’m “white”-ish enough, no kids, can’t get pregnant (or anyone pregnant) and I’m in the top 10%… so would anything for me fundamentally change? No…. I could stick my head in the sand and ignore it, but that’s really not me and it freaking breaks my heart to see all the people it impacts.
So I see one of three things:
- Try to ignore it and keep voting blue and on policies to help those where i can
- go one step further and put my money where my mouth is and help run an Underground Railroad for those who need to get to blue states while they still have the rights
- flee to another country
I don’t really want to think about it, but it’s been at the back of my head.
Stick around and keep trying to improve the country despite everyone else’s best efforts to fuck it all up
This is my plan. I have to finish medical school anyways, and once I’ve done that, I’ll be in a better position to help other people.
Same thing I did last time he was president. Ignore the news and spend as much time as possible in the woods on a bicycle.
Whine about my taxes going up again. Cry laugh at John Stewart. Go defend my school board
Try to avoid being murdered by my neighbors.
The same thing I did the last time he was president. Absolutely nothing.
Correct answer. People thinking murder will magically be legal are insane.
However, thinking that murder will magically be legal for a sitting President as part of his executive duties, is slightly more based in reality.
No, just no. The turnip if he whens will not magically make murder legal.
It will make murder legal for him, depending on how the Supreme Court rules on the presidential immunity case. Which they’re conspicuously refusing to do before the election.
If they ruled presidents had immunity it would literally make murder legal: Biden could legally murder Trump and only face impeachment. No criminal proceedings could be brought against him.
They’re obviously not ruling on it now. Cynically one could argue that they’re going to change the ruling depending on who wins. If Biden wins reelection then they’ll rule that presidents have legal limits. If he loses then they expand the power of the dictatorship.
That is exactly what I meant. Thanks!
As much as I fear what Trump will do to the nation it probably won’t have much of an effect on me personally.
I live in a deep red state that’s already about as corrupt and authoritarian as it can be, of course that’s never really true- but it’s not like it’s being held up by anything Trump will target. The powers that be and a wide majority of the population are already fully subservient to Trump so it’ll just be business as usual here.
I’m middle-aged, own my home, no dependents, all the childhood friends I’ve had that would be vulnerable already moved away and I have a pretty small circle of family\friends and not really looking to expand. And have a good position that’s very insulated from economic and political turbulence. I’m also a cis white male and a gun-owner, I blend pretty seamlessly unless I tell people what I think about state\national politics. And I love the food and nature here. Also I kinda can’t imagine job hunting at this point at all, let alone in another state. I’d like to live in a place that better reflected my values but I don’t actually think that would help me or anyone else.
I’m established here and I don’t really have any incentive to leave. Nobody is coming for me here and me moving to a Blue state won’t help anyone there. And my accent has made people react negatively to me in the past and I’m worried I’d actually appear to be more of a fish out of water in those places than I do here, even though that’s kinda what I’ve always been here. I vote, I donate. I used to volunteer but I’m tired now. Weird that I’ve made such a comfortable home in a viper den but we make lives how and where we can.
I know it’s just my privilege to say this but no matter what happens in 2024 my life will be pretty much the same for the foreseeable future. Intellectually I worry a lot about the fate of the nation and humanity but personally I worry more about collapsing global trade and infrastructure fucking up supply chains and creating civil unrest that will effect me personally. But idk what to do about that but worry so I guess why worry…
I’m in a similar situation. I have well developed social camouflage that will keep me under the radar. I’ll just continue to keep to myself.
If I had a plan to respond to someone horrible getting elected president, I would’ve used it long before now.
Spend a solid week posting screenshots of my comments on this platform about how the DNC is digging their own grave after they inevitably blame the voters for their loss just like in 2016.
you blame people who a) voted for trump or b) didn’t vote for Biden. simple as that.
you want to blame the DNC because you voted for Trump/didn’t vote for Biden? yeah, nah.
Well apparently there are no negative consequences for staging a coop.
Coup. COUP! It’s not a fucking chicken house!
He meant a co-op. A cooperative arrangement to leave the country
I don’t know, it doesn’t seem far off.
Well, as a real estate agent I staged a coop once but I still couldn’t sell it. It was a low quality flip though.
I mean do you like being woken up at 5 am every day? Because we had chickens growing up and it sucked. But with the price of eggs these days, maybe it’s a good tradeoff.
Curl up in a ball and weep a salty creek.
If anyone needs help moving to the EU (and in particular Finland) let me know. I moved to Finland after 2016 (I saw the writing on the wall for awhile, before Trump - it’s just that’s when I finally had the best opportunity and Trump accelerated the need to move).
It takes less money to move than you might think to move. If you have a specialty (especially in STEM) it’s really easy, and most jobs will even provide language classes for free.
If you don’t, it’s still possible, but it’ll be much harder work I’ll admit. You may end up as a janitor or laborer, but know this - you’ll still be able to live comfortably. Wages can be much fairer here, public transportation is excellent to the point where you don’t need a car at all, and you won’t be bankrupted by healthcare. Even a low skilled SINGLE job will afford you financial security - something I remember was not the case in the USA.
And on the bright side, if you want to go to higher education here, university is a lot cheaper or, if you live long enough in a place to become a permanent resident or citizen, free.
If you get yourself at least 8k and 3 months of intensive Duolingo and maybe Mondly, you have a chance to move.
Finland is one of three countries that banned my wife and stepdaughter’s race by using a procedural “gotcha.” Despite being a part of the Apostille convention in Geneva, Finland, Germany and Greece refuse to accept any documentation from Philippines. Therefore, they are banned from your country entirely.
Thanks for the offer though.
Reminder to all here: USA is not the only country on the planet with racism.
Could you go into more details? I have friends from the Philippines (like, directly from there, never were US citizens) and they still even visit family every year.
I’m not denying there’s racism here - there is, especially against Muslims (possibly more their religion and culture than the race itself, since it’s viewed very misogynistic and against Finnish values) and Somalians (this one is just racism based off ignorance). Recently against Russians too for, well, obvious reasons.
But none of my Philippine friends have experienced racism, especially the ones with Hispanic names (there’s Hispanic favoritism here).
Of course, racism isn’t why I recommend moving out of the USA to anywhere in the EU - it’s the civil unrest, unjust work practices, broken healthcare, rolling back of women’s and LGBTQ rights, corruption in government, etc.
Are you sure it wasn’t missing paperwork or errors? I’m assuming your wife doesn’t have a US passport for example since you said all paperwork was from the Philippines, and my high school friend’s grandmother mentioned Philippine record keeping, much like Salvadorian one, leaves much to be desired. Especially after Duterte’s reign making things worse and not complying with other global governments, if this was 2016-2022.
I don’t have direct knowledge on whether or not Duterte made all of this worse, but I suspect you’re correct. Philippines is worlds behind on records, which is why I understand the purpose of the Apostille certification agreement.
According to USA friends he fucked with records of ex-pats and it was a nightmare for a bit when their family members were getting citizenship. That’s why I also brought him up.
Oof. Considering his ex-presidential behavior in addition to his behavior while in office, this seems like something he would do.
Please see my long comment in thread above.
Removed by mod
uh… you know the Philippines is the most Catholic country on earth, right? They make the Vatican look chill.
I mean, they’re the only country on earth without divorce because they’re that Catholic.
Yeah I’m not talking about Phillipines in my reply, I highly doubt they would face any racism in Finland
That said I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Filipino in Finland ha
Actually you’ll notice that the counties with the best quality of life are incredibly xenophobic
It takes less money to move than you might think to move. If you have a specialty (especially in STEM) it’s really easy, and most jobs will even provide language classes for free.
Unfortunately I picked the wrong specialty (architecture). Still trying to get licensed by the end of the year, that’s the only chance I have at another country maybe recognizing my degree. Regardless, it’s not very in-demand.
It is in the Nordics and some western Europe countries if you get some kind of green certification, as eco friendly and energy efficient architecture is in high demand to meet climate goals but there’s a lack of architects specializing in that. Though from the news here it seems there’s a lack of architects in general as it was seen by many as not the most profitable field for so many years, so ironically you kinda lucked out lol
