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Exactly. Watching this all play out is strikingly similar to watching Trump get away with a mountain of stuff that would have put a poorer person in jail, and yet, no consequences.
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Problem is the united states is running out of ammo to send. Thinking one small war could blow through our reserves so quickly is concerning.
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It was shot. That is where it went. Where else do you think ammo would go? We hold a stockpile back for our defense but we sent the majority to ukraine. We have one factory that makes ammo and that’s it.
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Personal stockpiles? Do you think the average American has 155mm round sitting in their home? Rifle rounds are not the issue.
Ukraine needs heavy weapon rounds. We have one factory that makes 155mm rounds. I can’t remember which one stinger or javelin, they had to restart the line that had been shutdown.
People complain about our military spending but that is what it cost to keep the capability to have a large war.
Currently, our production is around 14K 155mm rounds a month. Ukraine was shooting that every few days. Biden is working hard to increase the capacity, but we are talking about a specialized production.
I think the takeaway from this is that we have not seen a war like this in a very long time. The amount of ammo each side is shooting is insane.
A quick google will find you many sources on this topic as it has become a huge issue. If we had another war, Taiwan for example, we would run out of ammo in days.
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It was fascinating when the topic came up. I just always assumed we had idle capacity ready to go. That is why we spend so much to have that capacity.
It turns out that we just spend a lot but don’t have extra capacity.
Here is just one of the many articles on it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/pentagon-increasing-production-of-155mm-artillery-shells-2023-1
Currently, the US produces just over 14,000 rounds of 155mm ammunition every month. As The Washington Post reported last month, Ukrainian forces have previously fired that many rounds in the span of 48 hours.
This is what scares me - the idea that we could run out of conventional weapons during a hot war, and start having to think of all those nukes lying around “doing nothing”
Some powers really are too much for humans. We’re not ready
That is my concern as well. That we will run low, start at o lose and then go nuclear
The Lithuanian foreign minister sums up the response thus far very well here.
“We declare red lines for ourselves, but not for Russia. We publicly tie our own hands while leaving Putin free to pillage, rape and destroy. We create strategic transparency, not strategic ambiguity. It’s time to change course.”
I know the Baltics have more skin in the game but I have to say politically they are playing an absolute blinder at the moment. Just hard spoken, no nonsense, absolute facts coming out of each of them along with such great support.
Hats off to them.
Nobody wants a war between NATO and Russia because in that scenario, everybody loses.
Russia wouldn’t win a ground conflict, but they’d sure-as-hell nuke the fuck out of every major city.
That would be the end of Russia and they know it.
Not only is this someone talking but it’s talking about postulating about someone else’s inner thoughts. Not an event, not a change. Not fucking news.
nobody wins or loses. it’s decades of civilian deaths and economic devastation, until someone decides to quit. people think everything is ww2 it’s just not like that.
Good job repeating russian propaganda.
Edit: Not that I care about internet points.
But the thought that opposing russia would lead to nuclear war is exactly what Putin wants people in the west to think to keep bullying and suppressing everyone around him.He is bluffing though and he knows it.
He said delivering supplies to Ukraine was the red line.
He didn’t react when we did.He said delivering arms to Ukraine was the red line.
He didn’t react when we did.He said delivering tanks to Ukraine was the red line.
He didn’t react when we did.He said delivering planes to Ukraine was the red line.
He didn’t react when we did.Because he can’t. He knows he would lose everything.
russia has a massive population and a wartime economy. in some ways it’s bigger than all the european nato countries combined. the idea that they would just fall over is absolutely western propaganda.
putin can suck my balls but he’s not an idiot.
Russia can’t even take on a former client state, their military is a joke compared to any single NATO member. They’re not a near peer for the US, maybe a near peer for some of the lesser NATO members. Russia would lose any conventional war against NATO without question. They barely have the personnel to fight Ukraine, they’re not going to be able to go after NATO. Hell, how much of their black sea fleet is left above water? And that’s against a country that doesn’t even have a goddamn Navy.
The only way they would bring out nukes is if we invaded Russia proper. Which I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to do.
NATO vs Russia would be like the Iraq War on steroids. All of their planes would be grounded and their troops in Ukraine would surrender in huge numbers. Drones would not help Russia because NATO troops would move too quickly.
Look at what happened in the first Gulf War. Saddam’s elite Republican Guard troops were destroyed by air and artillery fire, then mopped up in the largest tank battles since WW2.
Saddam had 1 million troops dug in defensively, fighting in territory they knew well, using many of the same weapons the Russians have now. His casualties were like 20% - 30%. Russia would be worse.
Their population is already war weary.
The weapons manufacturer win!
China would win. China is supplying Russia but China is not an ally of Russia. China would stop Russia the moment it’s no longer beneficial, which would be when NATO and Russia start fighting. China doesn’t care who wins, they win either way. If Russia loses China can take eastern Russia. If NATO loses, China can take Taiwan. If both wipe each other out China becomes the sole superpower.
I’d better get back to studying Mandarin.
Firstly, Pretty sure Russia’s nuclear weapons work just as well against China as they do against the West. Barring a complete collapse of Russia, China isn’t going to be taking vast swaths of Siberia, even if they wanted. They can take some already disputed territory (in fact the already have) because of Russia’s current weakness. But that’s about it.
Secondly, it’s no exaggeration that a conventional war between NATO and Russia would be over quickly. Ukraine with just a small percentage of NATO’s air power could defeat Russia. With Russia in the weakened state it’s in right now, it’s likely just Poland alone could defeat Russia. The Full force of NATO? They’d be done in less than a week. But that’s only if Russia doesn’t use nukes. In which case see the previous, but then ask why would China want to invade a nuclear wasteland? Probably just be hunkering down and dealing with the fallout.
Thirdly China doesn’t currently have the capability to take and hold Taiwan. Likely fail even to invade. If they tried that now it would go about as well as Russia’s attempt to invade Ukraine. Who knows, maybe Xi is as dumb as Putin, but I don’t think so.
Maybe in 10 years China might have the capability to make a move on Taiwan, but it’s likely the whole Putin situation will be resolved long before then.
I don’t know for certain what China would do but I very much doubt China wouldn’t try to benefit from a war between NATO and Russia. I also think you’re also severely underestimating how big Russia is. NATO could maybe take Moscow in a week, that’s only about 600 km from the Baltic states (which would be the closest point for NATO). But Russia has a lot of land to fall back to. From Moscow onward (just going east, but to keep in mind NATO would also need to go south) you’d have to take Novgorod, Samara, Yekaterinburg and Novosibirsk (and then Russia still has more land to fall back to but let’s just say Novosibirsk would be the final stand). Now we’re no longer talking about ~600km, now we’re talking about 4000km. We’re talking about the equivalent of taking the whole of United States. In a week? Yeah, that’s not happening.
It would be a long and tiresome war and would give plenty of time for China to come up with ways to benefit from it.
I think you’re underestimating how effective air power is. As bravely as the Ukrainian Air Force has been using what they have against Russia, it’s a very tiny fraction of what NATO has. And yeah Russia has a lot of land, but none of it is outside of the range of NATO air power. This isn’t the Napoleonic wars, Russia can fall back from ground offensives all they want but they’d be hit from the air while they’re making strategic retreats.They didn’t really have the accuracy needed to target individual tanks for the air (despite claims to the contrary) in WWII. NATO can do that now. They didn’t have mid air refueling in WWII, but that’s something NATO does have. So the range is effectively unlimited, they’d have tanks being destroyed during their their retreat and would have no way to replace them.
We’re talking about the equivalent of taking the whole of United States. In a week? Yeah, that’s not happening.
Yeah that indeed isn’t happening because there’s an insane number of air superiority fighters that would prevent anyone from getting close. An attempt for anyone to try to gain air superiority over the US would be over in minutes. NATO gaining air superiority over Russia would take longer than that because Russia would have ground based air defenses to deal with, but it wouldn’t take that long.
It would be a long and tiresome war and would give plenty of time for China to come up with ways to benefit from it.
As with all wars in modern times, the long and tiresome part would be the occupation, not the invasion. Well all wars except the failed Russian invasion of Ukraine. But in the the event of a hypothetical war between NATO and Russia, Ukraine would be behind NATO while the Russia (the country that failed to accomplish the easy part of an invasion) would be in front of NATO.
And yeah China would find ways to benefit, as all nations look for ways to benefit from any situation. If it came down to it (though hard to see it happening because nukes exist) most likely outcome would be the Russian Federation being broken up. There are many groups that aren’t happy about being ruled over by Moscow and granting them independence means less area to occupy. China would do shenanigans to get puppets installed in the newly formed countries close to them. In fact if there were a conventional war between NATO and Russia, it’s likely China would side with NATO so they could invade from the east while NATO invades from the west. Then they’d be in a good position to set up puppet governments post war. Because there is zero question who would win.
But since nuclear weapons do exist, none of this will happen.
Russia vs NATO might actually be a three day operation, at least in terms of the clash of armies.
Of course Russia’s nuclear arsenal is quite an effective deterrent.
News flash! One nation can’t win vs the strongest military country of the world + an entire continent of it’s allies!
I’m not entirely sure on that, because whatever intel he’s getting fed on there war, has to be the best horseshit ever. I don’t think that even Putin can ignore ~15.000 lost vehicles.
Meaning, he could very well believe he’d win.
Whomever wipes Putin off the planet gets a blowjob.
When you have a madman threatening nuclear confrontation, when does the probability of a first strike that might prevent significant retaliation have fewer megadeaths than being the victim of a first strike? This is the problem with sustained nuclear sabre rattling. What if its taken seriously?
Vova will start chucking nukes around and blame the west if he gets in a losing position.
Rhetoric is spinning up, and there’s apparently more people on here that like the idea of a literal third world war than are against it. Manufacturing consent really is the name of the game.
Nowdays being a clown is really well paid
From the same people that claimed the Ukraine issue would be resolved in a few weeks, and Russia days from defeat dozens of times since it started. Putin has cancer and wont survive much longer, Russia was using WWII shovels to fight. NATO and the US doesnt want to win war, they want to prolong it. The MIC doesnt want to win war, they want to prolong it.
Why would they want to prolong it?
Because this war brings in shit ton of money for way too many people around the world. The only ones suffering are Ukrainians. Heck, even North Korea got their economy booming! 2022 and early 2023 were tough, but oh boy the war profits started rolling in!
It’s making them richer than they already are.
Let’s exercise to defuse the situation instead. This guy like the kid at school who shouts “fight fight fight” at school!
You know what would defuse the situation? Russia getting the fuck out of Ukraine for starters!
Dont worry if there is going to be ww3 you will be able to tell it the Russians yourself.
lmao, Russia would get absolutely stomped especially at this point. They are doomed to be a CCP vassal state.
They can’t even beat a smaller state like Ukraine, NATO would absolutely wreck what’s left of Putin’s shitty little kleptocracy.
All Russia could try to do is launch nukes but they would get glassed immediately.
You live in an insane fantasy world.
You and which army? Have compared just the numbers of not total military personal but actual combat infantry vs support troops. Look man if ww3 comes around everyone who can talk and walk will be drafted. Additionaly how will be Russia glasses? By outdated Minuteman? Ive read how agitators in russia were talking of a 3 day war with Ukraine. Now look yourself. 100.000 have died regardless of “side” and we are still at the borders of 2022 with all fancy NATO equipment. War aint piece of cake. And the people on the top aint gonna fight. Its us who they send.
Go watch all quiet on the western front.
A shitload of armies, wtf do you think NATO is? Also yes, even outdated nukes would do the job just fine: Nobody wins a nuclear war.
You’re right though, the war Putin has been choosing to wage for a decade now is horrific and he should withdraw the people he sent to die from all of Ukraine.
They should also return all of the children they kidnapped and be held accountable for the many, many war crimes that have been committed.
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if you don’t acknowledge that Ukraine has decimated its population from 2014 onward.
Nice attempt at disinformation: Troll harder, fuckwit.
Russia had no legitimate reason to invade, Ukraine didn’t start killing Russians until they fucking invaded and started murdering, raping, and kidnapping thousands of innocent Ukrainians.
Fuck all the way off with that bullshit.
Please volunteer at the front line 😀
I’ll be sure to bring extra ammo bb <3
That reminds me, I should donate to the Ukrainian defense effort again, thanks!
Dont worry if there is going to be ww3 you will be able to tell it the Russians yourself.
Maybe WW III has already started with cyber warfare and psyops where Putin has scored massive victories, effectively installing his useful idiot and taking almost half of the US population out.
