The US is supporting Israel through what we can mostly all agree is a genocide of the Gazans. Clearly, Biden isn’t a genocidal maniac, yet he’s all in with unwavering support. Why are we doing this? There has to be a logical reason that isn’t just “we want Israel to kill everyone in Gaza and take their land a la lebensraum.”
We know this is an emotional topic, so please be respectful of each other so that we can have open and clear authentic discussion on the matter.
Biden said it himself back in the day, its a foothold in the Middle East, “if israel did not exist we would need to create an israel” im paraphrasing but the clip is on YouTube
Everyone that understands military doctrine would understand that one of the main purposes of Israel was to act as a staging ground to extend power throughout the middle east. There is also a sizeable voting block of christians that place special emphasis on the formation and continued support of Israel.
This is the only correct answer here. Everything else is just uneducated and emotional ramblings.
Why do we need a foothold there?
There are oceans between us and our enemies.
Let’s just fucking leave and let them come to us
Same reason why Pearl Harbor was a thing. Reaction time, faster reach, strategic location, etc.
Or we can use one of the many many other bases we have around there, like the one in jordan
The US supports plenty of fucked up countries because we gain something from them. In the same way Saudi Arabia supplies us oil, Israel provides an American stronghold in the middle east to operate out of. With the political importance and violent instability of the middle east the US finds Israel a necessity to its ambitions.
Let’s be honest, there’s a shit ton of money involved as well. From campaign donations to the military industrial complex, people are getting paid by Israel and jewish persons. They have a powerful lobby and influential people around the nation.
Oh and Prilosec is made in Israel I believe.
Also worth noting Israel is very advanced with respect to cybersecurity. Considering they provide tools like Pegasus to US intelligence agencies, I’m sure the agencies value this relationship very much.
Domestically within USA there are plentiful of issues. These can be seen as opportunities for collaboration & create solutions.
Honest/ Legit Question; Why not refocus efforts, resources, skills with experience on improving their own country in various ways? There are so much value to be gained, instead of utilizing so much resources in other regions/ countries - that don’t welcome them.
Why bother being involved in Middle East, when if they actually work/ utilize similar amounts of resources within their borders, the country as a whole could reach results that would envy others. Isn’t that what patriotism means? There are plethora of opportunities to be gained! But it’s being so neglected.
In transportation, health, education, nature, finances (solving various debts), jobs, scientific explorations, improved overall living, safety, etc…
The answer is simple and almost no one gets it: The U.S. will NEVER give up a military foothold in the middle east. They will ignore every atrocity Israel commits if it means we have a place to sortie from.
That’s it.
It’s not a religious conspiracy, it’s not about back room money deals.
It’s about military power and our ability to strike anywhere in the world with 2 hours notice.
This is the most simple answer and the truth. Not only that, but our hands are generally tied to a fault when it comes to these allies. This is why Biden has had some words to say, but there’s no actual teeth to them. He literally can’t do shit. Any other administration would be the same.
Yeah but that won’t prevent every fuckdamn armchair admiral from weighing in with their wikipedia based knowledge.
The problem is that those trolls are significantly out-shouting the truth.
No he CAN do something, he can say fuck you, and let someone else run while he does the right thing regardless of the cost to his career
It wouldn’t be the cost to his career, it would be the loss of military access to the most volatile place on the planet.
Do you even bother understanding the concepts you comment on?
We have other bases in the Middle East, we don’t need them for a foothold.
We can walk in, whip our dick out and ask who wants to be our new friend and under our protection.
Israel is ignoring us anyway so I see no harm.
Fall in line or fuck around and find out when we allow them to be outlaws and retract our protection.
Sends a message while we are at it.
… there is literally no military strategist in our armed forces that agree with your assessment.
Please don’t mistake your wikipedia education for a nuanced and in-depth understanding.
Because they have no intention of changing anything why would they look for another way?
They all keep getting rich off backroom deals with weapon companies
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Roughly 4 out of 5 companies I’ve seen that have received investments in my industry in the past 5 years have been Israel R&D startup companies.
Not my wheel house, but if I had to guess, the ruling class in the states has a lot of investments tied up in Israel.
Take with a grain of salt, as this is just an anecdotal observation.
Israel is a military toehold in the region. Israel desperately needs our help, so we help Israel because it allows us to have someone who desperately needs our help in the region.
Without US money there’d be no Iron Dome. There’d be no Israel of any kind. Israel needs the US, and that is why we chose Israel as our local ally.
From Machiavelli’s The Prince:
The Romans, in the countries which they annexed, observed closely these measures; they sent colonies and maintained friendly relations with[2] the minor powers, without increasing their strength; they kept down the greater, and did not allow any strong foreign powers to gain authority
Considering a selfish, manipulative, ahem Machiavellian worldview, the reason the US supports Israel is because Israel is the local minor power, which can only become the local major power with our help.
With US help, Israel is on top over there. Without it, Israel is a minor power. That is why Israel, specifically, gets our military investments.
Israel does not need our help, they could easily defend themselves against their neighbor and as a nuclear armed country they know the US will jump in to defend them.
They want an ally in the middle east? A bunch of countries in that area don’t like them.
I think this issue is also more nuanced than you’ll see it given credit for in the media.
I think there’s some strong “War in Iraq” parallels that can be drawn that might help reflect why the US is reacting the way they are.
To summarize, small group of terrorists commit an attack that is one of the worst in the nations history. This country that was attacked has a much better funded military, and they roll in to exact retribution, notionally under the banner of “stopping the people who did this and not letting it happen again.” The war of revenge is hugely detrimental to the civilian population therein, and human rights violations occur.
Most establishment politicians were/are fully on board with the War in Iraq. Why wouldn’t they be on board with Israel right now? It’s basically the same situation again.
I think that a lot of what you see online forgets that this wasn’t some random thing where Israel just decided to commit a genocide out of nowhere. But just like how 9/11 didn’t justify the War in Iraq, 10/7 doesn’t justify what’s happening now. But it’s somewhat understandable why it’s happening, and why people support it.
I remember right after 9/11, the vast majority of people were on board with sending troops in. The dissenters were super few and far between. This is just that again, but Israel this time.
Iraq didn’t have anything to do with 9-11. I think you mean Afghanistan.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct. :)
I was using “The War in Iraq” as a cover term for the whole ongoing conflict that arose in the aftermath of 9/11.
I think that your point actually furthers my parallel though. As the US was in Afghanistan, the Bush Administration’s obsession with Iraq ended up with them pushing questionable Intel that there were Al Queda controlled WMDs in Iraq, and that we had to invade there as well if we really wanted to win the war.
There’s a pretty clear parallel between that logic and the “Hamas Tunnels” arguments we’re hearing out of Israel at the moment.
One day they will release the full uncut and unedited videos of the tunnels so we can see where they all started, ran, and ended.
Probably any day now with how good the deepfakes are getting
Understand this, all reading this thread, though:
The DarkHexad of human-evil’s dimensions, is:
- Narcissism
- Machiavellianism
- Sociopathy ( mentally/experientially induced ) / Psychopathy ( intrinsic defective mirror-neurons function, NO empathy, NO other is “human” )
- Nihilism
- Sadism
- SystemicDishonesty
The more abused some population is, the more they become embedded in DarkHexad mind/meaning.
Hamas went nihilist.
They knew that Israel’d commit to genociding all Palestinians, to all the extent they could, and that’s why they did the attack.
Israel’s now is demonstrating its nihilism/sadism so blatently that their “deterrent” is being permanently corroded-away:
Within a few years, the surrounding Muslim region won’t care how much damage/violence Israel does to them while they’re annihilating Israel, they’ll HAVE TO annihilate Israel, at ANY cost.
Israel’s guaranteeing its own within-decade annihilation.
Exactly as Hamas’ ( either unconsciously or consciously ) strategy determined.
Israel walked into the trap, they ate the bait.
2 millenia ago, the ONLY Jew in the world that no Zionist would tolerate to have any validity, Yehoshua “Jesus” benJoseph, warned that when the abomination Daniel spoke-of was becoming real, that Israel would be annihilated.
( Matt 24, iirc … here, I dug it up, just in case anybody wants to read the actual text: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt+24%3A15-22&version=AMPC )
Perfect & correct warning.
Within 1 decade, Israel’s going to be annihilated, exactly as benJoseph warned, and the Zionists, themselves, are the ones enforcing that no alternative-future can happen.
Comical, really: one’s-own ideology/prejudice absolutely determining one’s fate, in a way that makes one’s most-hated-individual proven-right.
“Deterrent” only works when the ones hating your life are hesitating because of their aversion to the harm you can do them.
Israel’s not going to have any “deterrent” soon.
And they’re too ideology/prejudice rabid to know that simple human-nature meaning.
When, in a decade, perhaps less, Israel’s been annihilated, how is the rest of the Middle East, now committed/allied with BRICS, going to tilt the world’s geopolitical table?
No matter: Trump’s already said he’ll “delete” the constitution, leave NATO, back Russia, create crime in Washington DC, be dictator, & “MAGA”, right?
That is going to happen, unfortunately, and the incompetence of the Biden-institution is playing directly into handing the entire US into Trump-cult’s hands.
The economic rug-pull that they’re delaying can’t be held-back forever, either.
Backlash-vote always torpedoes the incumbents, in that situation.
It doesn’t even matter if legalism “prohibits” Trump becoming GEOTUS, now: legalists ignore all the letter-of-the-law that contradicts their intention, …
… and that is sooo traditional for legalists that benJoseph railed against their doing that 2 millenia ago.
Something like “you who hold the letter-of-the-law rules, who ignore even 1 part, are guilty of ALL”, iirc.
That is exactly the nature of the legalism of nowadays.
The real game going-on is that human-unconscious-ignorance is trying to enforce a simplistic “mythic” “importance” through global tantrum/pogrom.
And arguing with humanity’s unconscious-toddler … requires a bit of rather-brutal experience-induced-understanding enforcement, and that isn’t going to happen until “armageddon” has beaten that understanding into our unconscious.
The Great Filter.
Won’t-grow-up is the most-fundamental religion, in our unconscious.
_ /\ _
Nobody else has pointed out that theres roughly as many Jewish people in the US as in Israel. Which in the run-up to an election is not a voting base you would want to upset.
And do Israeli people actually approve of this genocide?
A sizable portion does. And the whole political system is built such that the extremists get a disproportionate say in policy.
Several things to consider.
Much of the information the Israels get is controlled. Many probably aren’t aware how bad the genocide is (and the it is genocide).
Most Israels have been subject to ongoing missile attacks and bombings their whole lives. Everyone there knows someone hurt or killed in an attack. They just want it to stop.
I don’t say this to in any way condone the genocide. I’m fully against the genocide. But, this is a complex issue with a lot of factors on both sides that can drive normally reasonable people to do bad things.
Well if they want it to stop they sure have a funny way of showing it, what with all the new fighters they just made.
You can’t even really blame the ones that just signed up, if someone did to me what Israel did to them, I would have a rifle in my hands too
After 40+ years of missiles, it’s fair to say, the other options weren’t working either. The Israel extremists currently in charge, are trying to make it impossible for the few Palestines left to attack them. If you look at what they’re doing to Gaza, it is total scorched earth. There are no buildings left standing to launch missiles from.
Ultimately, I think your right, it’s just going to perpetuate the cycle.
Personally I don’t think there’s any hope for the area. You have two groups that want to destroy each other on every level. Religion sucks.
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Strategic military foothold in the Middle East.
Israel’s an ally and America doesn’t exactly have the moral high ground to stand on cutting off israel for terror bombing civlians in the middle east.
More practically, Biden seems to think he can negotiate more from israel by playing at being on their side in this conflict than by joining the international condemnation against them, and to his credit he has achieved concessions from israel in the hypothetical post war, and managed hostage swaps between israel and hamas.
Lastly there’s the old saying about never letting a good crisis go to waste, the houthis have gone and made absolute asses of themselves with their red sea blockade over this war, and the US and KSA MICs are both explosively orgasmic at the campaign against them going from being labelled a humanitarian disaster to suddenly being a borderline service to the international community.
The longer Israel keeps it up, the longer the Houthis keep making everyone hate them, the longer MBS has to wipe what he sees as one of his biggest security threats off the map without catching flak from most of the international community. You could almost argue that Israel and KSA are passing the “everyone hates us!” ball back and forth to cover for each other’s designs on complete subjugation of their immediate neighbors.
Hypothetical concessions.
Pray I don’t alter it any farther
The reason I say hypothetical is because they’re conditioned on Fatah taking over
So basically Israel agreed to it under the pretense that they’d still get to wipe out Hamas
And my point was that they will do it either way regardless of what they say now.
That is what I meant by hypothetical, that they are lying
Christofascists and Zionists are pretty good friends, and as they are at the head of both countries it’s pretty reasonable for them to support eachother country.
Christofascists and Zionists are pretty good friends
It’s the same picture. Evangelical Christians are Zionists, because the Jews returning to the Holy Land is a precondition for the Rapture.
(They don’t actually give a flying fuck about the Jewish people themselves, to be clear. They just wanna get Raptured.)
This. They believe Jews belong in Israel which will bring the 2nd coming of Jesus and the rapture.
It’s called Christian dominionism.
Western powers support Israel because the Middle East is a strategically important region and Western powers have exactly one reliable partner there. I mean, look at what the House of Saud can get away with just for being a semi-reliable partner.
How exactly is Israel reliable when they do whatever they want regardless of western powers?
As reliable as Trump?
6 day war proved that Israel is not only an ideal staging ground but can basically just go out and kick the entire neighborhood’s ass all on their own, so having them on side for an actual throwdown in the region is seen as incredibly valuable for NATO war gamers considering hypothetical wars with Iran or even Russia if they decide to step too far over their side of the caucuses.
So long as they control their turf absolutely, and will attack whatever they’re pointed at, not attacking what they aren’t is seen as less of a problem
kick the entire neighborhood’s ass all on their own
people actually believe this shit. 🤦♂️
israel has always, since its inception has been propped up by western powers. Just because you don’t see them hoisting up a different flag than their own, doesn’t mean they are fighting anyone alone.
This is like US boasting they alone kicked the british out without any assistance.
Sending them weapons isn’t propping them up quite the same way the US got the assist from France Spain and the Netherlands, n’or were the arab states the same kind of comparative force that the brits were to the colonists, also Israel was initially a Soviet ally before the suez crisis.
Also, saying it doesn’t count because Israel bought an overwhelming kit advantage is like saying Cannae didn’t count because Hannibal “cheated” by facing off with the Romans so they’d be facing into a dust storm.
And let’s not forget ol Saddam in the 80s
Don’t discount the fact that Israel supported us in every way when 9/11 happened. I firmly believe every favor is being called in at this point.
Yeah, supported the US by knowing about the attacks and celebrating with photos on Sept 10th and having Bush and Ashcroft fly the mossad agents back to Israel.
Israel is no friend. The last time a US naval ship was attacked and destroyed was USS Liberty
So did China and Russia
Money.
The US had no essential friends in the Middle East. So the UK made one for them.
About 30% of it is the end of the world cult that believes that for Jesus to come back to take them Israel must exist.
The rest is just the usual reasons they love bombing the middle east.
Where is that in the Bible anyway?
Is it revelations or one of the old prophecies?
