Obviously I can understand why mysoginists are hated upon, As their belief is all women are trash or men are superior etc. But why are incels also generally hated upon? They are lacking in a way that makes them unable to gey in a relationship, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean they are mysoginists, right?
What am I missing here? I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?
The term “Incel” started out as just meaning “involuntarily celibate”, referring to men who, like you and I, have struggled to form meaningful relationships with women.
The term actually originated in forums that were used as like a support group for men who were feeling alone, isolated, and alienated.
Unfortunately, if you get enough guys like that together, they might start riling eachother up and convincing each other that it’s not their fault, it’s the women’s fault. Remember, the one common trait among all these guys was a lack of ability to connect with a woman.
Hey, I don’t struggle to get meaningful relationships! Getting laid tho is a different case sadly
“Incel” doesn’t just mean someone who is involuntarily celibate.
It’s a bit like how “Democrat” doesn’t just mean someone who participates in a democracy and “pro-life” doesn’t just mean someone who likes life on earth.
Incels are a specific subculture, it has a violent misogynistic ideology and has spawned several mass murderers.
Does that make me an incel?
Nope, it’s become a self identification ascribed to. Only defining feature of an imcel now is saying “I’m an incel”
And it happens to be that said communities are jam packed full of some extreme bigotry, hate, loathing, misogynistic behavior, etc etc.
Which means a person who identifies themselves with that crowd, can be assumed to be of the same cut of cloth.
In other words, a person like you would likely say “I haven’t been with a woman but I ain’t no incel though”, to signal you don’t identify with that culture.
Based on that last bit of your post, it sounds like you may actually not be that familiar with the incel community.
Short answer is that it goes much further than it seems at first glance. So,if you’re feeling unhappy about your prospects, I’d recommend looking into other communities for the sake of your mental health.
Honestly, just focusing on a hobby of some kind and making connections with the community surrounding it would be infinitely better for you.
The problem is, the word “involuntary” in incel puts the blame on those who won’t fuck them. It’s not their fault they haven’t had sex yet, it’s those who keep denying them. This gives them a reason not to have to change their behaviors or thoughts, which keeps them undesirable. That’s why they’re frowned upon.
Basically it’s the mindset of the Chalmers meme that makes an incel.
Am I doing something that actively repulses women?
No, it’s the women who are wrong
As long as you don’t subscribe to this line of reasoning, you aren’t an incel
Exactly. Incel is not another word for vergin, there are tons of vergins who aren’t incels.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
The term “involuntary” means that they’re not chosing to be single or sexless, but that forces outside of their control is causing it. But something has to cause it, and it’s the attitude that women have that they usually blame. The problem is that their own issues are what cause the celibacy, of which they refuse to change. It’s a lot easier for most people to but the blame outside of their control.
deleted by creator
Except some of us are treated like absolute garbage because of this definition. I’m just quiet and chill so somehow that gets defined as creepy. I’ve taken to just treating people as a reflection of how they treat me. Like I’m not even looking and I get treated as creepy I’d like to be in a relationship, but it really isn’t a requirement for me to be fulfilled. This really messes with my self esteem and makes me not want to talk to people for the most part.
I can’t speak to your creepiness, but as long as you put the onus on yourself as to why you’re single and don’t blame others, I wouldn’t call you an incel. Do you call yourself an incel?
No I don’t call myself an incel, but the definition has been detrimental to my daily life… Like of I’m out in public not with a girl just doing things as normal I get this stigma and dirty looks.
Can you give an example?
Honestly, it sounds like an anxiety disorder. No one is looking at men walking around without a partner wondering why a partner isn’t with them,. No one expects people to be with their partners all the time.
It’s definitely tough when you get criticised just for chilling out. My advice is to try and not be offended by those comments unless they come from people close or important to you. Ask yourself: why does their opinion matter/what value does it actually have? Is it jyst a throwaway comment from a e.g. stranger or friend of a friend of a friend. You do not need other’s opinions to validate yourself, so long as you’re not causing harm to anyone else, keep doing what you’re doing because it’s good for you and leave the busibodies to their ignorant opinion and to waste only their time and effort on it, not yours.
Ps you share my broad approach of treating others well if they treat me well. Thumbs up for that!
deleted by creator
No one is entitled to sex. That is not a right anyone has. Thus, the only way to be involuntarily celibate is being force to become a monk under threat or something. The idea that people are entitled to receive the love/sex/intimacy of others is fucked up and betrays the fundamental trust implied by consent. Which is the right of everyone involved to refuse, withdraw, or straight up remove themselves from participating in an intimate situation, at any time, without the need to provide any sort of explanation or justification.
The proposal that these people are entitled to sex gives rapey vibes and naturally generates disgusts in anyone who thinks rationally about the proposition for more than a minute. Because of the implication.
I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?
No, if you don’t hate women you’re not an incel.
I’ve never encountered an incel that wasn’t misogynistic. Generally they blame women for their lack of sex.
I blame my looks and bank account for lack of sex.
Have you tried lowering your standards?
I don’t want to be condescending or patronising, however: looks are less important than personal hygene, personal care and charisma, three things that can be acquired quite easily as there is a lot of literarure on all of them. Money certainly enables you to get better clothes and widen your horizons, but alone it will not do much for you. The most important thing though is certainly hygene. And remember that when you go out with someone the first time, usually what they are trying to understand is if you are completely deranged or viable human material. Try to fit the second category and you’ll do great. Poor people and ugly people also get laid, so that’s not an excuse.
Lots of good posts here so far. Something I haven’t seen mentioned is incel fascination with what is essentially phrenology. “My jaw is only 34% as prominent as the ideal and therefore I will never know the touch of a woman”.
It’s a loser mentality for losers. They are projecting it onto themselves.
You’ve already had some great answers, but I’ll just leave another point here for you to consider - they are literal terrorists.
Not one, but several have used their “inceldom” in their manifestos before going on mass shootings (often targeting, or trying to target women exclusively) and many other shooters were active members of incel forums (and many active incel forum users who still haven’t gone on a shooting spree openly talk about going on one).
I will strongly second whenigrowup356 - stay as far away from these people and their spaces as possible, they are toxic violent terrorists, and you should not only not want anything to do with them, but also not let them convince you to feel sorry for them, because as opposed to what they call themselves, the state they are in is anything but “involuntary”.
I think it’s important that we define what an incel is first and foremost, because the word has lost a lot of its meaning over the past decade.
Incel is short for ‘involuntary celibate’, or somebody who hasn’t had sexual relations not out of a voluntary vow of abstinence, but rather because mental and/or physical factors have made them into an undesirable partner and have left them feeling shunned by society. This could be things like autism, personality disorders, physical disfigurement or major injury as examples.
Many people in that situation refuse to identify as an incel, because the incel community which several mass shooters like Elliot Rodger came from is deeply misogynistic and talks about women as if they’re subhuman. They also idolize mass shooters as heroes. So maybe incel refers to that deeply misogynistic sect of the manosphere.
But more recently, incel has become something of a catch-all insult towards low value misogynistic men. Andrew Tate for example has been branded the ‘Incel King’ for the views that he preaches, even though 1. unlike an actual incel this guy fucks, and 2. a real incel wouldn’t have the charisma to run a MLM scheme, cam girl business and an alleged sex trafficking operation.
The hatred of women from them.
And the black pill element making it essentially a death cult
While the incel movement may have seemed to be just some men who found community in others who haven’t been in a relationship, something rather innocuous. It very quickly got hijacked into what it is today. It went from “I haven’t been with a woman yet but I’m still looking and in the mean time i have my friends” to “It’s women’s fault that I haven’t been with one and they use sex for power and are horrible people” and it devolved into worse things from there. The incel community was preyed upon by misogynist far right fascist and nazis. They were assaulted with propaganda in their communities, a place they had finally found that they were comfortable in. And when you are around those you care about, and they start espousing bigoted beliefs, some start to agree with it, and then most of them fall for it. It’s not unreasonable to want community. Everyone wants that. But the incel community quickly became a community of people who hated that they were virgins and were willing to take their anger out on others. Particularly women identifying individuals.
You say they are lacking in a way they can’t get women, I don’t think is wrong. They really haven’t been taught well by our society how to interact with women. They’re trying to get into a relationship using what they’ve been taught, but they’re floundering, reasonably, because society has taught them to view women as sex objects. Incels as a movement are a failure of our society, a failure of us teaching our kids how to act around others, including the gender they’re attracted to.
I’m not nearly read up enough to give you much more information, but if you want, there’s a book called Escape from Incel Island by Margaret Killjoy. It’s really good and helps explain things far more eloquently and fully than me, a random lemmy user can.
Also, never having been in a relationship doesn’t make you an incel, it just makes you someone who hasn’t experienced that yet. And that’s okay, we all grow at different speeds, it’s okay to not having been with someone. We attach way too much to the idea of being with your first person. It’s important to be able to respect and care about yourself somewhat before getting in a relationship, and it’s okay if that takes a while. I didn’t have that experience until my mid 20s, but it didn’t make me any less of a person. Just remember to respect yourself, and to respect the others around you. And also don’t treat women like sex objects, we are just humans, like any other. And there are 100% multiple people out there who will be interested in you, even if it takes a while to find one. I know you’ll find someone, especially considering you’re asking this question. You’re willing to ask about tough topics and that is something a lot of people can’t do. So good on you.
I generally agree with your comment, but this
They really haven’t been taught well by our society how to interact with women. They’re trying to get into a relationship using what they’ve been taught, but they’re floundering, reasonably, because society has taught them to view women as sex objects.
I think is wrong.
The whole problem is that the patriarchy absolutely teaches (especially white) men that women are objects, and that men are entitled to women and sex (but that only virginal women are worthy of marriage).
Some men unlearn this shit early on, some remain “neutral” assholes (those who will end up abusing but aren’t doing it consciously out of ideology, but still from the same sense of entitlement), and some take the entitlement to the extreme and adopt it as their ideology and way of life, but I think it’s really fucking important to highlight that they are in fact not taught anything different by society before that point, they just take their entitlement to another level once they’ve found others to confirm it for them.Either way, the name is a complete misnomer - they aren’t “involuntarily” celibate, they are celibate because they actively refuse to not be walking entitled pieces of shit.
There’s something very unlikable about anyone who blames all their woes and mishaps on someone else.
For incels it’s the women who have ruined society, for MAGAts it’s the left, for tankies and left reactionaries it’s the libs.
The one true facet stringing them all together is their inability to take personal responsibility for their situations (especially when there is any amount of public scrutiny, pride limits their growth potential).
People naturally don’t want to think they are the problem. So, they blame society which leads to blaming women which leads to misogyny which leads to the dark side.
People who label themselves as incels are somewhat accepting that the factors that lead them to be incels are unchangeable ( physical characteristics, limiting standards, social deficiencies, bad luck). So they have taken the steps to the dark side. And vocal incels are more often well on that path.
