People at Bonn protesting against Nazi cunts singing Ode to Joy
Damn. Wish the rest of Europe would do it this big.
In Germany millions are protesting against our fascist party AfD, after they unveiled their mass deportation plans.
I know. It’s good.
the french are already doing it quite well, wherever you live would definetely benefit from a protest of this scale.
The French right wing party “Front National” nearly won the presidential election. I think France should do a lot better!!
When? Where? Last time I remember this in France was 19 years ago. :-(
Let’s just appreciate for a moment how great of a choice Ode to Joy is for the European Anthem. It’s a very memorable tune which honestly kind of slaps in a way that few anthems do.
Still not as great as La Marseillaise (which is not even a song, but a war chant meant to be hollered), but one of the best anthems out there nonetheless.
I was confused after reading the post and got worried thinking it was the Nazis using Ode to Joy as their own.
The Pete Seeger version that I’ve often heard sometimes called Ode to Joy/Russian Song has fantastic lyrics. Not speaking German, I’m wondering if these folks are singing the same translation?
This is great news. However, I can’t help but fear that people went back to their private lives afterwards thinking “well done, we defended democracy”. Where to go from here? How to keep people engaged in fighting the right? What are realistic next steps for those of us wanting to do more than voting and the occasional demonstration, other than violence? On another note, how might one approach minorities concerned by the indicated policies to join the movement?
I wholly recommend Slavoj Zizek’s take on the 1st part of the 9th and its appropriation by different dictatorships and ideologies.
There are better songs if you want to bash fashs.
That video seems cut off. Zizek never gets to explain how Beethoven was criticizing anything with the second part of his symphony. How can lyric-less music criticize anything?
I believe at the time the Church had rules about musical timing for its music and things like certain chords and i think 3/4 timing as a whole were considered a sin.
I voted afd
Well, you should read the Partys Program, look info what their leaders say and realize it was a mistake. If you think they are right in their views, you may just be an asshole, sry about that.
Well, I did read their 2023 Party Program, and I’m afraid it’s pretty polished to appear mainstream. I was shocked on how many points appealed to me on first glance, like plebiscites, the prohibition for judges to be affiliated with a political party, universal basic income or transparent financing of political parties.
You have to actually study it, interpret it with their mindset in mind and compare it to the populist playbook used in countries like Italy, Hungary or Poland to detect the underlying fascism. It’s a shiny piece of deception.
It might be worth to write a comment on it.
That’s the “neat” thing about the party and their voters: They are used to not base things on facts. So they write one thing into their party program and do the other thing or not, just like they want and they promise a third thing in conflict with the first two. E.g. according to their program oft 2023 the reforms they want would help the rich, but all their voters (which are poor on average) believe that their polices would help them.
Btw some crazy points from their program:
- Abolish any inheritance tax
- Set a total max for the amount of money you have to pay taxes for, so if you are rich earn more and don’t pay a cent!
- They went from “there is no climate change” to “climate change always happened, we have nothing to do with it, CO2 is a essential part of live, we should make more!”
- Stop all wind energy projects
- “Landwirtschaft: Mehr Wettbewerb. Weniger Subventionen” Which translates to “More competition and less subsidies for agriculture” and still they manage to claim the farmer protests for them.
- Kids born in Germany should not have a chance to German citizenship if the parents do not have it. Regardless if they live their whole live here.
- Ignore EU policies when convenient, reimplement border controls (or in other words, leave the EU)
- Strive for assimilation of migrants (Yes the use the word “Assimilation”)
- Only grant asylum to people which can fill job roles where there is a provable gap in demand and local workforce.
- Do not mention homosexuality in school
- Do not grant any abortion rights, force any consultant to persuade a pregnant women to keep the child.
And I could go on. I think its pretty obvious what kind of political party they are, even from their program. Sure they have some good points in there too, but so do other parties which are not far-right and science deniers.
Check his username bruv
Yeah, I took the bait there…
Just so you know, spez is the colossal dickhead CEO of Reddit, who fucked everything up and caused the Reddit exodus. This is a troll account.
Ah fuck, I fell for it 🫠
Okay but like when are you going to act on it instead of this meaningless shit?
Fascism needs to driven out through violence and force not holding hands and singing kumbaya.
This is the action. It pushes back against fascist talking points in the public discourse and makes it harder for fascist to make themselves seem publicly accepted.
They’re already in your politics, taking votes and planning “deportations”. This is feel-good lib theatre.
And you want to give the state the power to get rid of any group it deems undesirable? Or do you want to break the law to get rid of them yourself? This protest is the sign that the majority will not go along with fascist talking points, it makes clear that those talking points have no space in public discourse. This is how democracy is supposed to work.
And you want to give the state the power to get rid of any group it deems undesirable?
The state already has the power to get rid of any group that seeks to destabilize our democratic system. This is a very central part of our constitution (see article 9, 18, 20 or 21). It’s basically a way to deal with the paradox of tolerance, if you’re not familiar with that concept here’s the wikipedia definition:
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society’s practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.
Ultimately, it is within the law to personally get rid of a group that wants to destroy our free and democratic system:
Article 20 […] (4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available.
This is usually interpreted as including physical violence.
Or do you want to break the law to get rid of them yourself?
That one.
If they get power, they’ll make it legal to do it to you. There won’t be any protests like this going on.
Good luck achieving nothing then.
A dead nazi achieves a lot more than a living one.
So how many nazis have you killed? Why so few?
I understand your longing for immediate action and I share the emotional need to cut off the snake’s head sooner than later. Those who break the social contract of tolerance for each other should not be protected by it. Unfortunately it is a matter of fact that violence will always spiral out of control. First you just want to get rid of the fascists. Assume you succeed and don’t get reprimanded by law. Then you know how to get rid of someone and can act on it. What stops you to get to your rivals that want to strip you from your new found power? Chances are real you drift off into dictator mannerisms yourself.
The only way to not become what you try to eliminate is not to use excessive violence to begin with. Use the law. Use intimidating mass demonstrations. Use social pressure by making their views unspeakable again. Be better, stand for your values, organize with like minded folk and don’t play into the stereotype of left groups always splittering into incapable small groups that cannot cooperate and coordinate
You mean a martyr for other Nazis to get motivated over?
Great /s
No need to break the law, it’s in the German constitution:
Article 20 […] (4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available.
Ah, I see. On the one hand here’s a green light and all you need to do is point it out to people. On the other there’s a green light and you’re saying “fuck the system, let’s go 200m down the road where the light is red and cross there”.
Mobilization is the first step. You will not get people to start beating up fascists, who for the past 20 years haven’t been to a single demonstration. Also having millions on the street for a cause puts pressure behind politics to take the more activist protests serious and respond to their demands. Also with the right wing media and propaganda machine it is crucial to have so many people out, that are considered otherwise apolitical or non radical, because the narrative of the right was that they represent the silent majority and that everyone against them is a leftist radical. Now they are struggling with absurd photoshops that the masses were fake.
Punching fascists is a moral obligation, but widespread protests against them usually also forces them back into their basement.
Mass protests are nice, because these fuckers get too comfortable otherwise. They often think because they are racist fucks, everyone else is too.
It’s important because it takes away the right’s talking point about speaking for the silent majority. This is the majority, and it’s not silent anymore. You can tell that the AfD is already in crisis mode over this. Hopefully we can keep it up until the general election.
This right here. It’s frightening how quickly many people forget.
I agree that ultimately, force is needed to get rid of fascism. But that doesn’t have to be physical violence, a somewhat functioning democratic system usually also has legislative force that can be used first. The German constitution was written up immediately after the horrors of the nazi regime and WWII. And it offers a lot of tools to fight fascism without physical violence. Political parties can be made illegal for example and individuals can lose their constitutional rights if they use them to destabilize the state. Of course, this won’t get rid of fascists but it may weaken them enough to not be a threat anymore.
People are protesting, among other things, for these tools to be used right now, before it’s too late and before physical violence is the only way out.
It’s funny how Germany should have those protections and yet the AfD is getting bigger and more popular.
Because the protections that are in place for a very good reason, are not being implemented by those in power. I don’t know why.
I think that’s pretty obvious. Using these powers will literally break up the country since AfD owns Eastern Germany. They should have acted much earlier.
One needs to distinguish between three types of people here: AfD functionaries who draw up deportation plans, definitely fascist, core voters, generally inherited from the NPD, who vote for the AfD because of those deportation plans, definitely fascist, and then protest voters who vote for the AfD despite those plans. Also despite the rest of their programme.
Long story short in Germany the left parties have been captured by (at best) labour aristocracy and neoliberals at worst, their policies led to a severe lack of social housing, an explosion of precarious employment, and it’s not like the labour aristocracy is above agitating against “freeloaders not pulling their weight”. We have a gigantic precariat, many more are afraid of landing there, and a significant portion of that precariat is pissed enough at the establishment to vote AfD because it’s the only party that hasn’t betrayed them so far, or they want to show a middle finger to the other parties, or both, take your pick.
What’s crucial now is that this protest moment is used to actually address those very legitimate grievances of the precariat. To invest in all that good stuff – housing (now with great insulation), public transport so people don’t need to buy expensive electric cars, district heating so people don’t need to buy expensive heat pumps. No land in large cities to build housing on? Expropriate it, doesn’t even need a change to the constitution. Pay for it all with wealth taxes which somehow have been completely cancelled when was it 90s? Suddenly all that anger that the AfD tries to redirect at immigrants will be gone, protest voters can stop voting for Nazis and clean their consciousness, and we’ll all be happy (for the moment).
Physical violence is a necessity.
As you noted states can have tools against fascism and other takeovers themselves. Physical violence can be one of those tools first. Historically seen its the most successful tool. Nothing has made more fascists disappear than deadly force.
Simply taking away their platform and organisations is not enough. This isn’t exclusive to fascism, but political movements in general. They will still remain a danger that way. They would still be a threat to real democracies, if we had any, by still being able to abuse and manipulate the system, swindling their way into power or undermining established constitutions, rights and laws. And in undemocratic systems they still can take over simply by corruption, propaganda or working their way up by more honest means.
It has been a while, but look at how in the 89-91 plenty of governments have been overthrown despite banned oppotisions.
How many fascists have you attacked? Or are you just a basement-dwelling keyboard warrior that hasn’t done even the slightest gesture, not even joined a protest like this, against nazis? STFU.
A few.
Beating your meat does not count.
Hah, funny.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-12/who-was-behind-bendigos-anti-mosque-protests/6848468
When they came to our town, we fought back. You should try it next time, it’s pretty cathartic.
While I share your sentiment regarding dealing with fascists with violence, there were no fascists to fight at these protests. The protests are in response to fascists growing political power and backroom planning that became public and not against fascists showing up in person. When that happens people do fight them (or try to, the cops protect them).
When they came to our town, we fought back. You should try it next time, it’s pretty cathartic.
Nothing about it in the article you linked. Maybe you miss clicked or something, try using your right hand.
Oh sorry, I originally had another link but changed it to a more reputable source without checking.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/fights-break-out-at-bendigo-mosque-protest/62dqgo9v3
And here’s the link I wanted to avoid using but it does offer the better insight despite being a shit company
About 300 people opposed to the mosque broke through police barricades and started punching anti-racism protesters on the steps of the Bendigo Town Hall on Saturday afternoon.
Seems like the Nazis were the one doing the punching. But than again we also have militant antifa in Germany (love those guys) - that’s just not a very effective way of fighting an ideology. People don’t change their believe after getting punched in the face - go figure.
They are already protesting for crying out loud. 100,000 protesters isn’t insignificant.
I’m an enthusiastic supporter of punching Nazis in the face. One punch and Richard Spencer ceased to be a threat in my country. We always need Nazi punchers. Just violent enough to pierce the veil of invulnerability fascists need but not violent enough to create martyrs for their movement.
“Righteous Violence” is at the core of fascism, but the rest of it is in propaganda techniques. There are many “nice” fascist ambassadors politely wheedling their way into every formal and informal organization of people. They would be much more successful if there was not already a widespread revulsion of fascism throughout almost all countries exposed to it. That revulsion isn’t just passed down, it has to be taught. Gigantic public demonstrations like this are the opposite of moments like this which have been happening in my country since 2016. Huge anti-fascist demonstrations are very important to resist fascism, since they are trying to peddle their ideology as natural and something all people believe and only a few are brave enough to claim. They have to be proven wrong for the kids they otherwise would appeal to.
