A degrowth society has to be an equitable society. Otherwise your criticism is entirely valid.
We are going to have a degrowth system regardless of any policy decisions, as the current growth system is burning through critical resources and destroying the environment. We can either plan for this, or we can have an unplanned existential civilizational crisis.
I mean we are saying the same thing… i am just saying that thinking this way is pretty elitist. There are developing african and asian countries that will soon surpass the US and EU in population. Im sure they will have the same mindset though.
My last like 5 posts on this have been sarcastic. I think its incorrect to think that environmental policy starts and stops with the west. I also think its unrealistic to think a developing country doesnt aspire to become just as waste hungry.
I know you put a /s in there, but that’s actually spot on. It’s very difficult to convince people to give a damn about nature if they don’t have decent food, shelter and a hopeful future for their children.
Unfortunately, a healthy nature is required to keep all those, it’s just not quite as visible or explicit as a bag of money.
What is not required is billions of profit going in the pockets of a few extremely rich investors though, that money could easily be used for improvements to our planet without impacting the livelihoods of anyone.
Yes, and no. I’m quite convinced that humanity can make a decent living for itself (i.e, more pleasant than that of the average current day human) even if we fuck up nature beyond our current day recognition. It’s worth considering that more than half of humanity lives in urban environments, and a majority of land area is cultivated in some way.
However, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry, or shouldn’t try.
Earth is our heritage, and what we make of it will be the legacy that future humans remember the 21st century by. I’d much rather have our great-great grandkids frolicking in the grass under a pearl blue sky than in concrete caves to protect them from neverending storms and scorching deserts.
I don’t know. I rather doubt our bodies can evolve and adapt to a new environment before we die out. At the very least, even if we do take to the stars, whatever survives will have evolved to something new
Can we start with the wealth of the 1st world and give it to everyone else? Im just a poor Guatemalan man working 2 jobs to sustain my family of 8. I will spend your money buying things I dont need just as much as you but ill be happy to take your wealth.
I’m all for seeing what that looks like. I promise I have little more than you. I’m interested in stripping away excess profits and seeing what level of luxury the world gets to enjoy in an egalitarian economy.
I hate this elitist sentiment. 😒
Strong “i got mine so fuck you” type of mentality.
A degrowth society has to be an equitable society. Otherwise your criticism is entirely valid.
We are going to have a degrowth system regardless of any policy decisions, as the current growth system is burning through critical resources and destroying the environment. We can either plan for this, or we can have an unplanned existential civilizational crisis.
Degrowth for the west, let the rest of the world suffer yeaaaaaa. Everyone knows only the west matters anyways.
By equitable I meant ‘equitable for everyone’ not equitable for only the people of the core of the empire.
I mean we are saying the same thing… i am just saying that thinking this way is pretty elitist. There are developing african and asian countries that will soon surpass the US and EU in population. Im sure they will have the same mindset though.
If you don’t think corporations and governments in Africa have the same idea that there should be endless growth, I suggest you read up on them.
My last like 5 posts on this have been sarcastic. I think its incorrect to think that environmental policy starts and stops with the west. I also think its unrealistic to think a developing country doesnt aspire to become just as waste hungry.
We need equalization, which means drastic cuts for the west and massive leaps for the developing world.
Yes? If we applied degrowth to places that don’t have anything, they would die en masse.
financial equality is so much more important than a living planet /s
I know you put a /s in there, but that’s actually spot on. It’s very difficult to convince people to give a damn about nature if they don’t have decent food, shelter and a hopeful future for their children.
e: spelling
Unfortunately, a healthy nature is required to keep all those, it’s just not quite as visible or explicit as a bag of money.
What is not required is billions of profit going in the pockets of a few extremely rich investors though, that money could easily be used for improvements to our planet without impacting the livelihoods of anyone.
Yes, and no. I’m quite convinced that humanity can make a decent living for itself (i.e, more pleasant than that of the average current day human) even if we fuck up nature beyond our current day recognition. It’s worth considering that more than half of humanity lives in urban environments, and a majority of land area is cultivated in some way.
However, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry, or shouldn’t try.
Earth is our heritage, and what we make of it will be the legacy that future humans remember the 21st century by. I’d much rather have our great-great grandkids frolicking in the grass under a pearl blue sky than in concrete caves to protect them from neverending storms and scorching deserts.
I don’t know. I rather doubt our bodies can evolve and adapt to a new environment before we die out. At the very least, even if we do take to the stars, whatever survives will have evolved to something new
See I have the same sentiment, yet i get downvoted. The only people screaming are the ones already in good situations.
wealth redistribution =/= unlimited growth
Can we start with the wealth of the 1st world and give it to everyone else? Im just a poor Guatemalan man working 2 jobs to sustain my family of 8. I will spend your money buying things I dont need just as much as you but ill be happy to take your wealth.
I’m all for seeing what that looks like. I promise I have little more than you. I’m interested in stripping away excess profits and seeing what level of luxury the world gets to enjoy in an egalitarian economy.