Last time, I used: “Anybody need anything while I’m out?” and that went over well. May not make it through this surgery on Friday, so I turn to Lemmy for top-notch suggestions for my potential last words!
Last time, I used: “Anybody need anything while I’m out?” and that went over well. May not make it through this surgery on Friday, so I turn to Lemmy for top-notch suggestions for my potential last words!
“I’m aware that consciousness still exists under general anesthesia, but the brain is no longer capable of forming memories, so have fun stabbing me with knives, I’m actually going to feel it!”
I broke my ankle a few years back and the bones had to be surgically reattached, but the OR was full so they had to set and splint it in the meantime. The shot of fentanyl didn’t do anything, so they gave a cocktail that knocked me right the fuck out and set my ankle. My husband said I shot straight up like I was in the Exorcist, yelled and swore a bunch and passed out again. I remember nothing, thankfully.
I’ve had that. They said I’d be awake but won’t remember anything. I’d feel it but won’t care.
Sure enough, I’m sitting up in bed, doctors are gone, and my leg is set, I feel totally normal. I had no idea what happened except that they said that’d happen. It was the weirdest experience. I hadn’t even changed positions. Like 15 minutes just got stolen from me.
I didn’t wake until the next day, they doped me right up or the fentanyl had a delayed reaction cause I slept for a good 15 hours after I was knocked out.
Ah. Mine was to set while waiting for surgery so things didn’t tighten up and be harder in the OR. I had tibia and fibula snapped and dislocated ankle. They got the joint back in place and straightened the leg, then put it in a splint to wait in.
They practiced the movements while I was with it and it seemed very violent and physical. Then they dosed me to do the real thing and the next thing I remember was sitting there wondering wtf just happened.
Yep same, I just slept a lot longer, probably cause of the cocktail they had to give me. And waiting for the OR took a little over a day so I was grateful to be out of it the whole time.
But hang on, there’s an interesting topic. Is consciousness the current processing, or is it the memory (and perhaps something additional)? Since not all nerve signals arrive in the brain at the same time, consciousness provably isn’t immediate. Perhaps it’s the recent memory of what just happened?
Fuck dude… You just told everyone that we’re living in a constant state of desync and the gamer in me doesn’t know how to handle that
Eh…life is an MMRPG, so a bit of lag is normal…
What about now?
The real lag was inside us the whole time
Lol, wait till you see the specs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_conduction_velocity
Separately, is it still pain if you’re not conscious of it?
Doctors used to assert that babies didn’t feel pain, because 1) they couldn’t tell us about it, and 2) they didn’t remember it later. They would just not anesthetize babies. Of course, that endpoint of this line of reasoning is horrifying, but it’s still a fair question. When we say “pain” do we mean the firing of the nerves, or do we mean awareness of it?
Note that you’re getting into something that was a big deal in the 70s and 80s. They’d perform any surgery on babies without anesthetic (which is dangerous to babies) because it was believed that they wouldn’t remember anyway so it wasn’t a big deal after all. I suspect that people will learn about this with horror.
To be fair, dosing babies with anesthesia is way more difficult, and there’s zero record of whether they have any drug allergies or intolerances
To the best of my understanding this is why local and general anesthesia can be the best combo.
General keeps you from being conscious of the damage of the knives during the surgical procedure. Local numbs the area to keep the brain from being aware that damage is happening. Reducing trauma sounds like a good idea to me.
Pain is fascinating (particularly if you’re not the one experiencing it.) Two people experiencing the exact same nerve stimulation can be painful to one but not the other. Context, life history and experience, and expectations all play into the experience of pain. In general, your brain determines if something is painful, then you do or don’t experience that pain. People can be shot or stabbed and be completely unaware until the brain decides it’s time to let them know.
Yes, pain is pain. People can still feel it and suffer even if they do not remember it. Anesthesia in context of surgery is too complex of a topic for me to comment on but I do frequently manage patients that are sedated, on ventilators either going to or coming from surgery. There are different scales and tools we use to assess if someone is under sedated or in pain. Keeping explanations simple pain can reflect as changes in vital signs, rigid or tense muscles, facial expressions. Sedation in the context I’m referring to is more a scale of either how awake someone is or what type of stimulation they respond to, for example do they open their eyes if someone says their name? Or do they open their eyes if I gently tap on their shoulder or do I need to put pressure on their nail bed for them to respond, if they respond at all. If they’re sedated enough they won’t remember the pain but they would still feel pain. Again this is NOT referring to general anesthesia during surgery, that is too complex and anesthesiologist have a very difficult job ensuring people are adequately medicated for surgery while also ensuring that they treat the side effects of the anesthesia medications so they don’t just kill people.
The two do have some overlap and my previous statement assumes no chemical paralysis. There are also times where it is acceptable to just sedate someone, or do something emergent without sedation and then giving something like Versed which causes retrograde amnesia. The person may have been fully conscious and felt everything that just happened but still won’t remember it.
This is a bit of an oversimplification but I’d say firing of the nerves is pain. I don’t have literature available to support but I know giving babies anesthesia is very dangerous so I would like to believe that the reasons you listed where just an over simplified “it’s really okay to do X or Y because they won’t remember it” rather than explaining to a parent in a way that they would truly understand the risk of anesthesia for a baby AND still allow whatever procedure to be done or force a parent to knowingly elect to put their baby through pain and suffering for a procedure. But again, not a doctor and I don’t work with people/babies during surgery
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