I’m getting really sick of this meme format. I get it, Trump is way worse than Biden, but that doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge that they’re both insanely old. We’ll all try to toss Biden’s corpse over the finish line a second time, but stop trying to gaslight us into thinking that electing an 81 year old is normal.
It’s possible to criticize Biden and be unhappy about his age without acting like him and trump are equally as bad, which a lot of “centrists” do to justify not voting. Those people are the ones being criticized in this post.
Yeah, but is anyone actually saying they’re equally, “bad,” or just that they’re both too old for this? I’ve heard people say that both shouldn’t be running but they’ll vote for Biden, or that Trump is fine and Biden is senile and criminal and part of the cabal (or whatever they believe these days), but I’ve never heard anyone say, “both are too old, therefore they’re equal and I won’t vote for either.” That seems like strawman meant to delegitimize criticism of Biden’s age.
I’ve seen it a few times. You probably won’t see it much on lemmy since lemmy is pretty left leaning for the most part and doesn’t have as many of those types of centrists, but those people do exist on other sites that I’ve seen.
Exactly. It definitely isn’t a, “centrist,” position either, centrists are firmly behind Biden. It feels like something leftists who are considering voting third party might say, but again, it’s not something I’ve actually seen anyone say. This feels like a meme in search of a problem.
In my experience people get a lot of that dumb camelcased “both sides” crap any time they make a legitimate criticism about Biden. It’s like a lot his supporters take a firm “with us or against us” stance. Which, ironically, is fucking exactly what the trump people do lol
Yeah, that’s my sense as welll. This meme feels like it was written by the kind of person who responds to any criticism of Biden with, “Oh so you want Trump to win?”
I am not a centrist by any strech of the imagination, but within a pretty slim margin of error just as bad as each other. What has biden even done in his term that is a net benefit.
I’m getting tired of people going on and on about their ages as if it’s something nobody noticed before. As if it’s going to change the situation.
A lot of Americans like voting for old fuddy duddies. You can’t control how other people vote, you can only control how you will vote. Old people vote and young people tend not to. You aren’t going change anything in a democratic process by not voting.
86% of Americans think Biden is too old to be President. 62% of Americans think Trump is too old to be President. 59% of Americans think both are too old to be President. Most Americans, by a wide margin, do not like voting for, “old fuddy daddies.”
Very few people are saying, “don’t vote,” but most people are saying, “don’t allow these men to run the country.” This meme is either targeting a very niche person or creating a strawman for the majority of people by equating, “these men are too old,” with, “these men are the same, don’t vote.”
What’s the deal with this certainty that this is the result of people’s will? I’m more inclined to beleive it is a systemic result of ‘winner takes all’ logic and the penetration of political and media institutions by bad actors.
Do you honestly think that anything will convince the DNC to forward ANY candidate except the one that already beat cheetolini?
I mean, I’m voting for blue despite my misgivings because I KNOW how dangerous twice impeached seditionists are to our democracy, but I am not doing it with enthusiasm.
The DNC will never allow an actual progressive anywhere near the presidency.
You know you can become a member of the DNC right? You know that you have representatives on the DNC you can contact, right? You know you have influence on the DNC if you actually choose to exercise it, right?
You don’t know I volunteered in all local and state level elections from 1991 to 2006?
You don’t know that I manned the phones both times for Bernie a minimum of 15 hours a month?
You SHOULD know that the only influence normal people have in the DNC directly relates to how much they can donate, and hours apparently don’t equate to voice.
I’m fucking turning half a century this year, you do this shit I paid my time.
You don’t know I volunteered in all local and state level elections from 1991 to 2006?
Hmm, no mentions of the DNC here…
You don’t know that I manned the phones both times for Bernie a minimum of 15 hours a month?
Hmm, no DNC mentions here…
You SHOULD know that the only influence normal people have in the DNC directly relates to how much they can donate, and hours apparently don’t equate to voice.
Hmm, no mention of you actually interacting with the DNC here…
I’m fucking turning half a century this year, you do this shit I paid my time.
But the DNC will also never change, if their actions have no consequences.
If they can perpetually get away with “Well our candidate is not aspiring to be a second Putin”, all that does is push the political spectrum further and further to the right, until the DNC will give you a Putin and the Republicans will give you a Mussolini.
Voting for a progressive third party, to show them that they have to offer the best e.g. most agreeable position, that is more progressive of the republican reactionarism.
Also if people would organize to do so, it could become an existential threat to them, and ideally bring on a new party that is not corrupted by capitalism and imperialism like the Dems are.
No, voting for a third party is voting for a third party. If that party gains enough track to become the second most elected, that party can be the winning party the year after.
Also in about every other democracy the concept of coalitions exist, where parties agree to form a coalition by negotiating a compromise between their policies.
The issue is that the US politics are made to be the same as stock market companys. Only ever think to the next term. Never think further. Never try to bring positive change over a longer time. Always just fight the next battle of existential dread and prepare the country for the next battle being even more dreadful, while the people suffer more and more.
This mindset of mainting this toxic status quo is part of the reasons, why Trump could win in 2016 in the first place. He understood that all he needs to do, is being an entertaining asshole, that claims to not be part of the establishment. And you saw, how quick some of the Reps, and many “conservatives” were to dump Trump, after the sentiment turned against him a bit after the fallout of Jan 6. /r/conservative was hilarious for this, as all of a sudden everyone was talking about how they always were wary of Trump and how it is good that the Reps would get back to being the party of reason. (With people like Ted Cruz being endorsed as reasonable, lmfao) But the Trumpists stood out the backlash and now all the Reps are sucking up to him again.
It will not become better, if Trump won’t win this time, or if he ends his second term. He is only one head of a Hydra of what is wrong with the US. And the Dems are guarding the neck whenever the head is severed, so two new heads can grow.
They will not change on the issues of supporting neoliberal capitalism that is literally killing the people in the US, as well as genocidial imperialism that is killing the people outside of the US.
Just look at the history of the past twenty years. First came Obama, who was a black president and as such a token of progress, but at the same time accompanied by Biden, who was somewhere between conservative and reactionary. Obama failed to deliver on progressive promises like closing Guantanamo, while launching a deadly program of extrajudicial killings, read cold blooded assassinations by drones. After Obama, the DNC pushed for Hillary Clinton, who as a secretary of state under Bush was coorchestrating the Iraq invasion, that not only was just as illegal us Putins invasion of Ukraine, and founded on equally absurd lies, it also killed a million people and led to the rise of ISIS. Meanwhile Saudi Arabia was palliated, despite clear connections between Saudi Arabia and 9/11.
So Clinton became the candidate. What did she advocate for? For starting a war with Iran, setting all of the Middle East ablaze. If you think the war against Iraq was bad, with a million people killed, imagine ten times that many people killed. That was Hillary Clintons idea of American foreign policy.
And who did we get afterwards? Joe Biden, who has been on the reactionary side for the msot part of his long lasting history as senator. He was already a geriatric at the time of the campaigning in 2018-2020. But the DNC would rather create the conditions under which Democracy will be abolished, than ever dare as much as bring an actually progressive candidate. A candidate where the only progress expected would be to not kill the poor in the US, through devastating economic policy and to not kill people abroad through illegal invasions and US white supremacy.
After Obama, the DNC pushed for Hillary Clinton, who as a secretary of state under Bush was coorchestrating the Iraq invasion, that not only was just as illegal us Putins invasion of Ukraine, and founded on equally absurd lies, it also killed a million people and led to the rise of ISIS. Meanwhile Saudi Arabia was palliated, despite clear connections between Saudi Arabia and 9/11.
Why should anyone listen to you when it’s obvious you have no clue what you’re talking about. Hillary was SOS under Obama, not Bush, and she had absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq invasion. But, hey, why let a little thing like facts get in the way of your vitriol.
Yes. There are problems with the DNC. I don’t think there’s any democrat on here who is 100% happy with how the party is run.
But we’re not the party of one great leader. Not everyone who is a democrat blindly follows the person in charge. But every democrat wants change, that’s why we vote blue regardless. Or else at best we stay stagnant under republican rule.
Remember that any criticism of Biden, no matter how legitimate, is definitely pro-trump Russian propaganda. God forbid people don’t just want to vote against something.
At the end of the day, this is how it is. The system is absurdly broken. We couldn’t possibly be here if it wasn’t. The fact that they keep shoving Biden at us doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t choose him over the much more overt fascist Trump, but it also doesn’t mean that we should accept him.
No matter who’s elected, everyone should fucking riot.
Remember that any criticism of Biden, no matter how legitimate, is definitely pro-trump Russian propaganda. God forbid people don’t just want to vote against something.
How the Fuck does that work, You are sauing that no one is alowed to have and air grevences of the PRESIDENT, or gosh even worse try to hold them accountable because “the other guy is Trump” Look I get it, I do not like trump either, but FFS grow up, not everyone who is complaining is pro-trump, not everything anti-biden or pro trump is russian. Trump is very much a home grown american thing, and you cannot start to adress the socital issues untill you accept that.
Also Putin himself said he would perfer Biden… or are you going to twist yourself into knots about how that means he wants Trump
Any time someone criticizes Biden a bunch of liberals crawl out of the woodwork and yell about how you’re pro-Trump and a Russian asset and all sorts of shit like that. What you quoted is mostly sarcasm.
was trump significantly worse? I mean his retoric was awful yes, and he was a mask off facist, but Biden has done almost nothing to undo what trump started, and in some cases has activly sped it up, the only difrence that I can see is that Biden talks more polite
As a Tolkien fan and someone who hates voting for octagenarians, this post triggers me more than I’d like to admit.
Equating the upcoming election to this isn’t a choice between Saruman and Gandalf, it’s between Saruman and Sauron, but instead of picking either of those guys, you pick Aragorn, who Gandalf really likes.
So what we should do, instead of voting for either, is ask Gandalf Bernie Sanders who he’d like to be president and vote for that guy.
Also, the whole “line of kings is broken” portion of this joke feels way to close to an RFK Jr. joke for my taste. The man’s insane.
It really does bother me that so few are willing to recognize what a shitty president Biden has been.
I mean, if you’re a wage earner in half of the US states, Biden did jack shit to help you and you can still be legally paid $7 an hour, but he moved heaven and earth to make more money appear out of thin air for Israel, Ukraine, and other miscellaneous wars when he’s already budgeted a trillion dollars for war.
I don’t understand why I shouldn’t expect a progressive use the power of the presidency to make real positive change as hard as Trump used it to try and ban Muslims.
Also Biden is supporting Israel in its genocide against the Palestinians. A muslim political analyst coined it this way:
“Why should you vote for the guy that is commiting genocide, over the person that might commit genocide? Commiting genocide must be a red line to not vote someone.”
I’m getting really sick of this meme format. I get it, Trump is way worse than Biden, but that doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge that they’re both insanely old. We’ll all try to toss Biden’s corpse over the finish line a second time, but stop trying to gaslight us into thinking that electing an 81 year old is normal.
It’s possible to criticize Biden and be unhappy about his age without acting like him and trump are equally as bad, which a lot of “centrists” do to justify not voting. Those people are the ones being criticized in this post.
Yeah, but is anyone actually saying they’re equally, “bad,” or just that they’re both too old for this? I’ve heard people say that both shouldn’t be running but they’ll vote for Biden, or that Trump is fine and Biden is senile and criminal and part of the cabal (or whatever they believe these days), but I’ve never heard anyone say, “both are too old, therefore they’re equal and I won’t vote for either.” That seems like strawman meant to delegitimize criticism of Biden’s age.
I have personally seen people say that so they do exist.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say they’re equally bad. I’ve seen a shitload of memes like this one that imply it’s widespread though.
I’ve seen it a few times. You probably won’t see it much on lemmy since lemmy is pretty left leaning for the most part and doesn’t have as many of those types of centrists, but those people do exist on other sites that I’ve seen.
Exactly. It definitely isn’t a, “centrist,” position either, centrists are firmly behind Biden. It feels like something leftists who are considering voting third party might say, but again, it’s not something I’ve actually seen anyone say. This feels like a meme in search of a problem.
In my experience people get a lot of that dumb camelcased “both sides” crap any time they make a legitimate criticism about Biden. It’s like a lot his supporters take a firm “with us or against us” stance. Which, ironically, is fucking exactly what the trump people do lol
Yeah, that’s my sense as welll. This meme feels like it was written by the kind of person who responds to any criticism of Biden with, “Oh so you want Trump to win?”
I am not a centrist by any strech of the imagination, but within a pretty slim margin of error just as bad as each other. What has biden even done in his term that is a net benefit.
I’m getting tired of people going on and on about their ages as if it’s something nobody noticed before. As if it’s going to change the situation.
A lot of Americans like voting for old fuddy duddies. You can’t control how other people vote, you can only control how you will vote. Old people vote and young people tend not to. You aren’t going change anything in a democratic process by not voting.
86% of Americans think Biden is too old to be President. 62% of Americans think Trump is too old to be President. 59% of Americans think both are too old to be President. Most Americans, by a wide margin, do not like voting for, “old fuddy daddies.”
Very few people are saying, “don’t vote,” but most people are saying, “don’t allow these men to run the country.” This meme is either targeting a very niche person or creating a strawman for the majority of people by equating, “these men are too old,” with, “these men are the same, don’t vote.”
The presidential election isn’t democratic. In fact, it’s antidemocratic by design.
With that said, you won’t change anything voting between two conservatives either.
What’s the deal with this certainty that this is the result of people’s will? I’m more inclined to beleive it is a systemic result of ‘winner takes all’ logic and the penetration of political and media institutions by bad actors.
Do you honestly think that anything will convince the DNC to forward ANY candidate except the one that already beat cheetolini?
I mean, I’m voting for blue despite my misgivings because I KNOW how dangerous twice impeached seditionists are to our democracy, but I am not doing it with enthusiasm.
The DNC will never allow an actual progressive anywhere near the presidency.
You know you can become a member of the DNC right? You know that you have representatives on the DNC you can contact, right? You know you have influence on the DNC if you actually choose to exercise it, right?
You don’t know I volunteered in all local and state level elections from 1991 to 2006?
You don’t know that I manned the phones both times for Bernie a minimum of 15 hours a month?
You SHOULD know that the only influence normal people have in the DNC directly relates to how much they can donate, and hours apparently don’t equate to voice.
I’m fucking turning half a century this year, you do this shit I paid my time.
So like, you haven’t tried to contact your DNC reps?
I’m sorry that reading comprehension is difficult for you.
But, good news!
Nearly every college and university offers free adult literacy classes.
You don’t have to live your life like this any more!
Hmm, no mentions of the DNC here…
Hmm, no DNC mentions here…
Hmm, no mention of you actually interacting with the DNC here…
But the DNC will also never change, if their actions have no consequences.
If they can perpetually get away with “Well our candidate is not aspiring to be a second Putin”, all that does is push the political spectrum further and further to the right, until the DNC will give you a Putin and the Republicans will give you a Mussolini.
What consequences do you propose?
Voting for a progressive third party, to show them that they have to offer the best e.g. most agreeable position, that is more progressive of the republican reactionarism.
Also if people would organize to do so, it could become an existential threat to them, and ideally bring on a new party that is not corrupted by capitalism and imperialism like the Dems are.
Voting for a third party is voting for the major-party candidate you like least.
It’s how the system works, and encouraging people to vote 3rd party over Biden right now only makes sense if you’re wanting Trump to win.
No, voting for a third party is voting for a third party. If that party gains enough track to become the second most elected, that party can be the winning party the year after.
Also in about every other democracy the concept of coalitions exist, where parties agree to form a coalition by negotiating a compromise between their policies.
The issue is that the US politics are made to be the same as stock market companys. Only ever think to the next term. Never think further. Never try to bring positive change over a longer time. Always just fight the next battle of existential dread and prepare the country for the next battle being even more dreadful, while the people suffer more and more.
This mindset of mainting this toxic status quo is part of the reasons, why Trump could win in 2016 in the first place. He understood that all he needs to do, is being an entertaining asshole, that claims to not be part of the establishment. And you saw, how quick some of the Reps, and many “conservatives” were to dump Trump, after the sentiment turned against him a bit after the fallout of Jan 6. /r/conservative was hilarious for this, as all of a sudden everyone was talking about how they always were wary of Trump and how it is good that the Reps would get back to being the party of reason. (With people like Ted Cruz being endorsed as reasonable, lmfao) But the Trumpists stood out the backlash and now all the Reps are sucking up to him again.
It will not become better, if Trump won’t win this time, or if he ends his second term. He is only one head of a Hydra of what is wrong with the US. And the Dems are guarding the neck whenever the head is severed, so two new heads can grow.
Yeah, our politics are fucked.
How will voting in a method statistically certain to benefit a literal fascist help?
Were voting against Trump because he is a threat to democracy. Bush, McCain, and Romney were not.
The only way to accomplish what you propose is to switch our elections to ranked choice voting.
Otherwise, I’m sorry but you’re stuck with the two major party choices.
You’re calling the DNC the party of no change?
They will not change on the issues of supporting neoliberal capitalism that is literally killing the people in the US, as well as genocidial imperialism that is killing the people outside of the US.
Just look at the history of the past twenty years. First came Obama, who was a black president and as such a token of progress, but at the same time accompanied by Biden, who was somewhere between conservative and reactionary. Obama failed to deliver on progressive promises like closing Guantanamo, while launching a deadly program of extrajudicial killings, read cold blooded assassinations by drones. After Obama, the DNC pushed for Hillary Clinton, who as a secretary of state under Bush was coorchestrating the Iraq invasion, that not only was just as illegal us Putins invasion of Ukraine, and founded on equally absurd lies, it also killed a million people and led to the rise of ISIS. Meanwhile Saudi Arabia was palliated, despite clear connections between Saudi Arabia and 9/11.
So Clinton became the candidate. What did she advocate for? For starting a war with Iran, setting all of the Middle East ablaze. If you think the war against Iraq was bad, with a million people killed, imagine ten times that many people killed. That was Hillary Clintons idea of American foreign policy.
And who did we get afterwards? Joe Biden, who has been on the reactionary side for the msot part of his long lasting history as senator. He was already a geriatric at the time of the campaigning in 2018-2020. But the DNC would rather create the conditions under which Democracy will be abolished, than ever dare as much as bring an actually progressive candidate. A candidate where the only progress expected would be to not kill the poor in the US, through devastating economic policy and to not kill people abroad through illegal invasions and US white supremacy.
Why should anyone listen to you when it’s obvious you have no clue what you’re talking about. Hillary was SOS under Obama, not Bush, and she had absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq invasion. But, hey, why let a little thing like facts get in the way of your vitriol.
Im sorry,i mixed it up. She was SOS under Obama, but she voted for the Iraq invasion and was war hawky at every opportunity.
Yes. There are problems with the DNC. I don’t think there’s any democrat on here who is 100% happy with how the party is run.
But we’re not the party of one great leader. Not everyone who is a democrat blindly follows the person in charge. But every democrat wants change, that’s why we vote blue regardless. Or else at best we stay stagnant under republican rule.
Remember that any criticism of Biden, no matter how legitimate, is definitely pro-trump Russian propaganda. God forbid people don’t just want to vote against something.
At the end of the day, this is how it is. The system is absurdly broken. We couldn’t possibly be here if it wasn’t. The fact that they keep shoving Biden at us doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t choose him over the much more overt fascist Trump, but it also doesn’t mean that we should accept him.
No matter who’s elected, everyone should fucking riot.
If you really think that to be the case then democracy is already dead and Putin has won.
Liberal democracy was a scam before Putin was born. Putin just exploited it’s weakness, like all fascists do.
There was found no evidence that Putin engaged in any illegal election interference.
How the Fuck does that work, You are sauing that no one is alowed to have and air grevences of the PRESIDENT, or gosh even worse try to hold them accountable because “the other guy is Trump” Look I get it, I do not like trump either, but FFS grow up, not everyone who is complaining is pro-trump, not everything anti-biden or pro trump is russian. Trump is very much a home grown american thing, and you cannot start to adress the socital issues untill you accept that.
Also Putin himself said he would perfer Biden… or are you going to twist yourself into knots about how that means he wants Trump
Any time someone criticizes Biden a bunch of liberals crawl out of the woodwork and yell about how you’re pro-Trump and a Russian asset and all sorts of shit like that. What you quoted is mostly sarcasm.
You’re not the target of the meme if you’re able to understand that voting for Biden is a necessity.
Its an extortion
The vice presidential debate is more important than ever.
No it’s not, it’s end of (or decline of) democracy vs current (shitty) state of democracy.
was trump significantly worse? I mean his retoric was awful yes, and he was a mask off facist, but Biden has done almost nothing to undo what trump started, and in some cases has activly sped it up, the only difrence that I can see is that Biden talks more polite
As a Tolkien fan and someone who hates voting for octagenarians, this post triggers me more than I’d like to admit.
Equating the upcoming election to this isn’t a choice between Saruman and Gandalf, it’s between Saruman and Sauron, but instead of picking either of those guys, you pick Aragorn, who Gandalf really likes.
So what we should do, instead of voting for either, is ask
GandalfBernie Sanders who he’d like to be president and vote for that guy.Also, the whole “line of kings is broken” portion of this joke feels way to close to an RFK Jr. joke for my taste. The man’s insane.
It really does bother me that so few are willing to recognize what a shitty president Biden has been.
I mean, if you’re a wage earner in half of the US states, Biden did jack shit to help you and you can still be legally paid $7 an hour, but he moved heaven and earth to make more money appear out of thin air for Israel, Ukraine, and other miscellaneous wars when he’s already budgeted a trillion dollars for war.
I don’t understand why I shouldn’t expect a progressive use the power of the presidency to make real positive change as hard as Trump used it to try and ban Muslims.
^This is a forum sliding account.
Also Biden is supporting Israel in its genocide against the Palestinians. A muslim political analyst coined it this way:
“Why should you vote for the guy that is commiting genocide, over the person that might commit genocide? Commiting genocide must be a red line to not vote someone.”