Yes but the question is wrong. It only asks if Germany should continue to “support” Ukraine (which in my book also means medical aid, taking on refugees, mediating a good deal etc. and is a no-brainer) What it does not mean is a.) to keep the sanctions against Russia which hurt us and the Russian people more than Putin and the oligarchs and b.) to deliver modern heavy German-made tanks…
Really makes you wonder whether people in Germany truly understand what it is they’re signing up for. We’re just starting to enter early stages of the crisis, and confidence in the government is still relatively high. Most people believe that there is a plan and that alternative sources of energy will be secured. It’s going to be much more interesting to see what level support there is for the current policies once people start waking up to the fact that they’ve been lied to all this time and that there is no plan going forward.
I can only speak for my observations in my relatively rural local area. People have absolutely no idea what’s coming. They’re convinced energy prices are high because Putin made it so and that renewables will save us, or that we can get the missing gas (that Russia chose not to sell to us but is also selling to us at very high prices apparently) from elsewhere. They think the current government wouldn’t be there if they had known what was in store for them. Nobody worries about food supplies yet, but that’ll be tight next year at the latest as well. My employer has reassured us that our work won’t be impacted as the company is powered by self-sourced renewable energy, but we’re entirely reliant on high quality stainless steel which won’t be readily available soon if not already.
Given what happened during the so-called refugee crisis of 2014, I can’t even imagine what’s in store this winter, when the material conditions of the white labour aristocrat majority are actually impacted.
This is what I mean when I say people don’t understand the implications of what’s happening. German economy is largely based in manufacturing. Input costs for manufacturing have just shot up by an order of magnitude. This makes it uncompetitive for companies to operate in Germany, and as a result German manufacturing industry is already starting to shut down. Some of it is moving to US, while most is moving to Asia. This will lead to mass unemployment coupled with rising prices on things that now need to be imported from other countries at a time when German currency is tanking.
Meanwhile, there is no available energy to replace what Germany was getting from Russia available going forward. A lot of the problems are being deferred by relying on reserves, but those were only meant to supplement pipelines not replace them. German government spent the past 6 months looking for alternatives and has come up largely empty handed.
Before the pipelines got blown up there was a chance that Germany could’ve backed down from the current position and negotiated with Russia, but that avenue has now been closed. This quote basically sums up what US did to Europe:
“Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight. If they will face death, there is nothing they may not achieve. Officers and men alike will put forth their uttermost strength. Soldiers in desperate straits lose the sense of fear. If there is no place of refuge, they will stand firm."
Only if you believe the state media. Personally I doubt that their surveys really reflect society. For example they often use loaded or confusing questions.
Germany does not have “a state media” besides DW (Deutsche Welle) which is very small and not worth talking about in the context of what you are implying.
Russia’s the one that just strongly hinted that it would use nukes to “defend” the land it just stole in an obviously fake election. No one else has been talking about destroying Russia (besides maybe encouraging the downfall of Putin), and certainly not “wiped off the map”.
Please provide a quote from Russia that says anything of the sort. What Russia said is that they would retaliate in kind if the west considered using nuclear weapons. This whole narrative of Russia threatening to use nukes has been the most bizarre bit of propaganda to date. There literally has been no change in Russian stance on use of nuclear weapons.
Western media relies on the fact that no westerners bother reading the actual statements published by Russia and simply make stuff up that fits the preconceptions westerners have. Since you already believe that Russia would threaten to use nuclear weapons then you won’t check to see if that’s the case when your media tells you so.
I would argue that them calling a country an existential risk means something nasty, but okay, your position is obvious on this platform. Lib downvotes will not change that.
Also it looks like you are making the bait claim that Russia stole nukes here, which comes off as pretty uneducated. Which fake election, Navalny puppet or Trump puppet?
Obviously. We’re being told that all these price increases are because Putin is an evil megalomaniac who’s increasing our energy prices. There’s also no space at all for critical voices in the mainstream press, even ones that simply question the wisdom of weapons shipments and financial aid.
Do we have data on number of voters / participants for these polls ?
deleted by creator
Yes but the question is wrong. It only asks if Germany should continue to “support” Ukraine (which in my book also means medical aid, taking on refugees, mediating a good deal etc. and is a no-brainer) What it does not mean is a.) to keep the sanctions against Russia which hurt us and the Russian people more than Putin and the oligarchs and b.) to deliver modern heavy German-made tanks…
Really makes you wonder whether people in Germany truly understand what it is they’re signing up for. We’re just starting to enter early stages of the crisis, and confidence in the government is still relatively high. Most people believe that there is a plan and that alternative sources of energy will be secured. It’s going to be much more interesting to see what level support there is for the current policies once people start waking up to the fact that they’ve been lied to all this time and that there is no plan going forward.
I can only speak for my observations in my relatively rural local area. People have absolutely no idea what’s coming. They’re convinced energy prices are high because Putin made it so and that renewables will save us, or that we can get the missing gas (that Russia chose not to sell to us but is also selling to us at very high prices apparently) from elsewhere. They think the current government wouldn’t be there if they had known what was in store for them. Nobody worries about food supplies yet, but that’ll be tight next year at the latest as well. My employer has reassured us that our work won’t be impacted as the company is powered by self-sourced renewable energy, but we’re entirely reliant on high quality stainless steel which won’t be readily available soon if not already.
Given what happened during the so-called refugee crisis of 2014, I can’t even imagine what’s in store this winter, when the material conditions of the white labour aristocrat majority are actually impacted.
It’s really scary to watch to be honest because complete lack of preparation will only make the whole thing worse.
I guess most Germans know that not supporting the Ukraine from now on will not lead to lower gas prices suddenly. It’s to late for that I’d assume.
The real test will be if they flip the switch in winter. Will Germans put on a jacket in the house, or turn their backs on people they can’t see?
This is what I mean when I say people don’t understand the implications of what’s happening. German economy is largely based in manufacturing. Input costs for manufacturing have just shot up by an order of magnitude. This makes it uncompetitive for companies to operate in Germany, and as a result German manufacturing industry is already starting to shut down. Some of it is moving to US, while most is moving to Asia. This will lead to mass unemployment coupled with rising prices on things that now need to be imported from other countries at a time when German currency is tanking.
Meanwhile, there is no available energy to replace what Germany was getting from Russia available going forward. A lot of the problems are being deferred by relying on reserves, but those were only meant to supplement pipelines not replace them. German government spent the past 6 months looking for alternatives and has come up largely empty handed.
Before the pipelines got blown up there was a chance that Germany could’ve backed down from the current position and negotiated with Russia, but that avenue has now been closed. This quote basically sums up what US did to Europe:
Only if you believe the state media. Personally I doubt that their surveys really reflect society. For example they often use loaded or confusing questions.
Germany does not have “a state media” besides DW (Deutsche Welle) which is very small and not worth talking about in the context of what you are implying.
ARD and ZDF are state media by any reasonable definition. Bookkeeping tricks do not make them meaningfully independent from the state.
No, they are neither state funded nor state controlled.
omgomgputinbadukrainegoodomgomggggggg
REALLY, ARE PEOPLE THIS STUPID?
Are you okay?
Wow, that’s amazing.
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So you are confirming that you wish for Russia to be wiped off the map?
Russia’s the one that just strongly hinted that it would use nukes to “defend” the land it just stole in an obviously fake election. No one else has been talking about destroying Russia (besides maybe encouraging the downfall of Putin), and certainly not “wiped off the map”.
Please provide a quote from Russia that says anything of the sort. What Russia said is that they would retaliate in kind if the west considered using nuclear weapons. This whole narrative of Russia threatening to use nukes has been the most bizarre bit of propaganda to date. There literally has been no change in Russian stance on use of nuclear weapons.
Western media relies on the fact that no westerners bother reading the actual statements published by Russia and simply make stuff up that fits the preconceptions westerners have. Since you already believe that Russia would threaten to use nuclear weapons then you won’t check to see if that’s the case when your media tells you so.
I would argue that them calling a country an existential risk means something nasty, but okay, your position is obvious on this platform. Lib downvotes will not change that.
Also it looks like you are making the bait claim that Russia stole nukes here, which comes off as pretty uneducated. Which fake election, Navalny puppet or Trump puppet?
Sure, it means they don’t trust Russia. Which considering that Russia just started the largest conflict in Europe since WW2 is not an unfounded fear.
I never said anything of the sort.
The one where this footage was released on TV. The one that was taken at gunpoint. The one where an impossibly high percentage voted yes.
Navalny? You mean the guy Putin can’t bare to have a fair and free election against? Or are you going to defend those fake elections too?
Oh absolutely. But it’s refreshing to see people in Germany finally recognize it, and consistently keep recognizing it over several months.
Well, data is data. Thanks!
Obviously. We’re being told that all these price increases are because Putin is an evil megalomaniac who’s increasing our energy prices. There’s also no space at all for critical voices in the mainstream press, even ones that simply question the wisdom of weapons shipments and financial aid.
German public support for bootlicking despite rising energy prices has increased in the last months, from 70% in July to 74% in Sept
Fixed the title for ya.